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SerenityOS Browser now passes the Acid3 test

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Re: SerenityOS Browser now passes the Acid3 test

#41

Post by loudmax »

rvz wrote: post #18
zppln wrote: post #11

Great work by everyone involved. SerenityOS is for me by far the most interesting project in tech right now. It's like watching a different branch of reality evolving. The recent browser optimization videos by Andreas himself have been great. A great moment in particular was seeing Andreas' satisfaction when he go smooth hover effects on links[0], a single moment where he is (presumably) struck with how far his proje…

Indeed. It's beyond impressive, especially the web browser from scratch and the whole idea of operating systems that are not typical, yet another Linux distro stuff and having an integrated consistent user interface and open source like RedoxOS, Haiku, Fuchsia, etc has. But let's be a bit realistic, how long can we expect this to be a reliable daily driver on real machines and not stuck on a VM? It has taken more tha…

The challenge here would be getting all those miscellaneous hardware drivers to be ported to SerenityOS. Some hacker might write Serenity drivers for their particular desktop, but that won't do you any good unless you have the exact same hardware. A Raspberry Pi might be a good target, but Serenity OS is currently x86 only. So realistically, Serenity on random consumer hardware is unlikely to ever happen.

Fuchsia is in a similar situation. Google may start pushing Fuchsia on some limited set of hardware, but I don't see a reason for them to start writing drivers for anything other than hardware from Google or Google partners.

Now, I could see SerenityOS as an option inside of something like Qubes OS. Here, the hardware is abstracted so you could run it on whatever. There may be some limited security through obscurity benefit to running an OS so far off the beaten path.

Like you, I'm dumbfounded by the achievement of Serenity OS. According to the Readme, Serenity OS is "a system by us, for us, based on the things we like." I don't know that making Serinity OS a daily driver for anyone who isn't interested in hacking on it is an actual goal for Andreas.

Re: SerenityOS Browser now passes the Acid3 test

#42

Post by fabrice_d »

skyfaller wrote: post #35
fabrice_d wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is both very impressive given everything that is being produced, but also a bit scary and sad in 2022. There is ample evidence that even very excellent developers and teams can't avoid the footguns of c++ and that leads issues down the line. If we just look at the browser, they seem to make much faster progress than Servo, but there is no doubt it will have security flaws.

Feels like this might be an example of "worse is better". Or alternately, that the community that SerenityOS has built and the joy they find in tinkering matters more than their technical foundations, in terms of getting something built that works and is maintained/maintainable. Servo looks like it could have been a technically better browser engine, but it seems the window for it becoming relevant is closing, while…

I agree with you about the project being a joy for the developers.

But as a user, in no way I would rely on a browser started in 2020 written in c++ (or in zig, given other comments about its security characteristics). Keep in mind that gecko/webkit were written initially in c++ because c++ was the best language available at the time for these projects. This is not true anymore.

Re: SerenityOS Browser now passes the Acid3 test

#43

Post by mminer237 »

stolenmerch wrote: post #30

I don't follow web standards closely, but I'm curious if this comment is still true (or was ever true): "For people who don't follow modern web standards, a modern web browser getting 100/100 is actually failing tests. You should get 97/100, failing tests 23, 25, and 35." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18941348

That's correct. Tests 23 & 25 require a specific error type that has since been changed in that circumstance: https://github.com/whatwg/dom/issues/319#ref-commit-94dd371

Test 35 requires root elements to not match :first-child, and the spec was changed to specify that they should match: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1300374

Re: SerenityOS Browser now passes the Acid3 test

#45

Post by j-james »

TonyTrapp wrote: post #37
stolenmerch wrote: post #30

I don't follow web standards closely, but I'm curious if this comment is still true (or was ever true): "For people who don't follow modern web standards, a modern web browser getting 100/100 is actually failing tests. You should get 97/100, failing tests 23, 25, and 35." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18941348

The old version ( http://acid3.acidtests.org/ ) will reach 97/100 on modern compliant browsers. There is a newer version ( https://wpt.live/acid/acid3/test.html ) which incorporates the changes made to the specs in the meantime, so modern browsers will reach 100/100 on this one again. The test was carried out against this version, as you can see in the address bar in the screenshot.

Hmm, I'm seeing 99/100 in Chromium (mobile and desktop). I wonder what test is failing.

Re: SerenityOS Browser now passes the Acid3 test

#46

Post by naoqj »

j-james wrote: post #45
TonyTrapp wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The old version ( http://acid3.acidtests.org/ ) will reach 97/100 on modern compliant browsers. There is a newer version ( https://wpt.live/acid/acid3/test.html ) which incorporates the changes made to the specs in the meantime, so modern browsers will reach 100/100 on this one again. The test was carried out against this version, as you can see in the address bar in the screenshot.

Hmm, I'm seeing 99/100 in Chromium (mobile and desktop). I wonder what test is failing.

It says "test 64 is failing: object.data isn't absolute"

Re: SerenityOS Browser now passes the Acid3 test

#47

Post by missblit »

TonyTrapp wrote: post #37
stolenmerch wrote: post #30

I don't follow web standards closely, but I'm curious if this comment is still true (or was ever true): "For people who don't follow modern web standards, a modern web browser getting 100/100 is actually failing tests. You should get 97/100, failing tests 23, 25, and 35." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18941348

The old version ( http://acid3.acidtests.org/ ) will reach 97/100 on modern compliant browsers. There is a newer version ( https://wpt.live/acid/acid3/test.html ) which incorporates the changes made to the specs in the meantime, so modern browsers will reach 100/100 on this one again. The test was carried out against this version, as you can see in the address bar in the screenshot.

Your link also only gets 99/100 on modern browsers.

Why? Well...

    // test 64: more attribute tests
    // attributes of the  element
    var obj1 = document.createElement('object');
    obj1.setAttribute('data', 'test.html');
    // ...
    assert(obj1.data.match(/^http:/), "object.data isn't absolute");
See that "http" in test 64? Turns out you'll get a score of 100/100 if you use the http version of the URL instead of HTTPS.

Re: SerenityOS Browser now passes the Acid3 test

#48

Post by black_puppydog »

naoqj wrote: post #46
j-james wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, I'm seeing 99/100 in Chromium (mobile and desktop). I wonder what test is failing.

It says "test 64 is failing: object.data isn't absolute"

Chrome is just abiding by the much more important industry standard of "it has to work in chrome, period"

Re: SerenityOS Browser now passes the Acid3 test

#49

Post by greggsy »

TonyTrapp wrote: post #37
stolenmerch wrote: post #30

I don't follow web standards closely, but I'm curious if this comment is still true (or was ever true): "For people who don't follow modern web standards, a modern web browser getting 100/100 is actually failing tests. You should get 97/100, failing tests 23, 25, and 35." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18941348

The old version ( http://acid3.acidtests.org/ ) will reach 97/100 on modern compliant browsers. There is a newer version ( https://wpt.live/acid/acid3/test.html ) which incorporates the changes made to the specs in the meantime, so modern browsers will reach 100/100 on this one again. The test was carried out against this version, as you can see in the address bar in the screenshot.

I got either 68, 97 or 99 on Safari iOS. Disabled content blockers and Darker Reader.

Re: SerenityOS Browser now passes the Acid3 test

#50

Post by wing-_-nuts »

I've watched a few of this guy's videos, and it's deeply impressive. He reminds me of the grizzled old guys from the 1980's that actually know the deep internals of an OS. They didn't just take it in school, they lived and breathed it. He's the guy that made the 'myth' of a 10x coder a reality for me.

I get this is his passion project, but part of me wonders what he could accomplish working on the rough edges of linux.

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