The Uselessness of Phenylephrine • Hacker News Board

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine

#141

Post by samatman » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 7:16 PM UTC

oh_sigh wrote: post #108

samatman wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for pointing out the author, the headline is not news to me and I would have passed on reading it.

Strange that you were reading all the comments about the article you weren't interested in...

I didn't say I wasn't interested in the [headline] I said it wasn't news to me. It's a topic I find interesting, and as it turns out, by an author I already enjoy.

The article was not informative [to me], but it was fun reading. Since it was not informative to me (as I deduced correctly from the headline) I could have easily read the comments and not the article.

Hope that helps!

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine

#142

Post by toast0 » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 7:18 PM UTC

gojomo wrote: post #113

arkades wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pseudoephedrine is still available -behind the counter-. You literally just have to ask the pharmacist for it. Let’s not turn grad students having a laugh into an actual statement on public policy.

Which means it's not available outside of the pharmacist counter's more-limited hours. And there's often an additional line to wait in before acquiring. And, as another thread points out, extra ID requirements. So how exactly do the costs/benefits on this "public policy" sum out? Benefits: • some grandstanding politicians enjoy the superficial appearance of being "tough on meth" Costs: • Americans waste $billions on…

> Larger cross-border criminal organizations – of the kind that regularly murder politicians south-of-the-border – grow in market-share, sophistication, & power.

Are you suggesting my neighborhood friendly drug dealer could hook me up with some real sudafed? Might be nicer than trying to get it from the pharmacy when I need it.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine

#143

Post by gojomo » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 7:18 PM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #92

By the way, if you want something that works, that you can buy without a prescription, I cannot recommend “BronkAid” aka ephedrine sulfate 25mg highly enough. It’s sold “behind the counter” in the US at major pharmacy chains, which means you have to ask for it by name, they won’t even have the cards in the aisles that you then bring up and redeem. You have to show ID — not sure if that’s a Federal or a State thing, a…

My understanding, consistent with your impression, is that ephedrine has more of a full-system effect, including lungs & bronchial tubes, along with (in many people) more of a general full-system stimulation. In contrast, pseudoephedrine has a greater nasal/sinus effect with a bit less full-system spillover (but still noticeable in some people, or at higher doses, or in combo with caffeine).

So it's worth it for people to be aware of ephedrine options – like ephedrine sulfate or ephedrine hcl ('Primatene') – but many will still find pseudoephedrine better for their symptoms. It's worth trying both, separately, depending on personal chemistry & concerns.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine

#144

Post by reincarnate0x14 » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 7:20 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #110

reincarnate0x14 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really is amazing how someone manages to be on the wrong side of seemingly everything, and yet is locked into office past the point of senility.

This means that either your calibration mechanism for 'wrong side' is flawed, or the system is rigged in a way that it consistently produces bad outcomes. Speaking for myself, am shocked and outraged that red senators and other congresscritters are consistently on the wrong side of seemingly everything, yet they keep getting elected. Of course, my political calibration mechanisms are quite in tune.

Feinstein's hard authoritarian and surveillance state preferences haven't endeared her to many people who are also shocked and outraged by the usual collection of utterly repugnant red senators, so option B there.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine

#145

Post by gojomo » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 7:20 PM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #26

It might not do much if taken orally, but a phenylephrine nasal spray can be pretty powerful.

So perhaps they should sell the sprays, for their topical effectiveness, but stop the wasteful sales/promotion of pills.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine

#146

Post by dataangel » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 7:20 PM UTC

I've recently had to deal with the medical profession a lot more than in the past and I'm finding this sort of thing everywhere. OTC medicines that by current standards would not be made OTC, surgeries that are extremely common but have never had quality randomized trials, official sounding diagnoses that on inspection are actually defined as "we have no idea", lack of consensus about how to treat some of the most common conditions in the human population (e.g. back pain), medical device approvals abusing the shortcut of being "substantially similar" to an existing device to evade regulatory scrutiny, the complete lack of enforcement of what goes in supplements... I feel like my entire understanding of the medical system in the US was a lie. We're constantly touting that we have the most advanced technology but if you have a complex condition you are likely to fall prey to multiple kinds of grift.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine

#147

Post by The_rationalist » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 7:21 PM UTC

ncmncm wrote: post #50

The_rationalist wrote: post #6

Levo-methamphetamine is a legal decongestant BTW

Where does one obtain that? From the waste stream of the methamphetamine producers?

btw racemic meth is legally prescribed for ADHD under the brand desoxyn, although it's probably hard to find doctors prescribing it over regular amph

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine

#148

Post by dredmorbius » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 7:21 PM UTC

hammock wrote: post #81

ericbarrett wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not get a non-motorist ID card? Every US state has these; here's Washington's: https://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/gettingidcard.html

Many Americans have difficulty obtaining ID, because they cannot afford or cannot obtain the underlying documents that are a prerequisite to obtaining government-issued photo ID card. Underlying documents required to obtain ID cost money, a significant expense for lower-income Americans. The combined cost of document fees, travel expenses and waiting time are estimated to range from $75 to $175. The travel required i…

Do you have any specific citations on that?

I find it a credible claim. There was a story a few years back which made the rounds that ... turned out to be a case of fraud.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/articl...

https://www.inquirer.com/news/mark-damico-johnny-bobbitt-kat...

That said, given frictions of obtaining ID and necessity of having same, I could well believe that this is an issue.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine

#149

Post by rootusrootus » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 7:22 PM UTC

somebodynew wrote: post #82

rootusrootus wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's happening slowly. Oregon had pushed it all the way to requiring a prescription to get pseudoephedrine. It does still require a visit to the store pharmacy and showing your ID to prove you are an adult, but at least you can buy it without a prescription now. I think only a couple states ever went that far. But at least it is a step back in the right direction.

The ID check isn't for age verification. Federal law requires IDs to be recorded* to enforce restrictions on the maximum quantity that an individual is permitted to purchase per month. * Edit: Where the word "recorded" appears, this comment previously said "scanned and submitted to a central database". While most states use a central database, the comment reply below pointed out that this goes beyond the minimum that…

I am not aware of a centralized federal database. My understanding is that federal regulations stipulate that the pharmacy must see photo ID and take note of who bought the pseudoephedrine, when, how much, and keep that information logged either on paper or electronically. To be available to law enforcement on request.

The Oregon law does have a central database requirement, however I believe this is in all cases a decision made by each state individually.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine

#150

Post by joecool1029 » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 7:22 PM UTC

Phenylephrine does have one use that the author missed: It's used in ophthalmology to dilate the pupils before eye exams.

On the topic of other use case medications, I used to take Sudafed (the real pseudoephedrine kind) during allergy season for a few weeks each year and noticed my productivity skyrocketed during that time, when I normally had issues context switching. Eventually I narrowed it down to taking Sudafed and saw this post: https://accidentalscientist.com/2005/08/the-sudafed-test-for...

This lead to an ADHD diagnosis and proper meds and my life and work productivity improved pretty dramatically.