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The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

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Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#431

Post by fluoridation »

greedo wrote: post #410
incomingpain wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You're looking at it wrong. Plenty of jobs simply can't be done remotely. This data is now in. It's roughly 2/3s of jobs cant be done remotely. > If it gets to the point that people can't afford to move around much, they'll either permanently move closer to their workplace or find a job closer to their home. That transition happened during the financial crisis in 2009. >Also, arguably the current discussion around W…

OP is talking about office jobs, your 2/3 stat is for all jobs. I think he's wrong though. Most office jobs should be capable of being remote, unless the mgmt is unwilling to make changes to the modern world.

Note that what I'm saying is not that most office jobs can't be done remotely at all. What I'm saying is that most can't be done remotely without harming productivity in some way. For example, if someone can do their job entirely by themselves and only needs to periodic check ins to report progress, yes, that person can remotely just fine. If someone works in a closely-knit team where interaction needs to be frequent and someone in that team can't adapt to remote work productivity is going to suffer by having everyone in physically different locations.

I don't think it's as simple as "management doesn't want WFH because of a temper tantrum".

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#432

Post by greedo »

kamaal wrote: post #297
v-erne wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have heard this argument against WFH many times over. Especially from my relatives that work in bullshit jobs (cough ... investment banking ... cough). I wonder if people that brings up this understand what they are really saying. Because it's not like WFH reduces the amount of promotion that goes around. Its just have the potential of reallocating it differently. And this means that they are afraid that they will…

>>I would argue that this says more about those people than about WFH. Not sure what your argument is, if a person eats lunch with another person on an everyday basis, or may be goes for a tea break walk, they are also likely to talk things about family, games and other such stuff. You really shouldn't be surprised if this sort of a relationship has a stronger bonding and more meaning, and this just can't be develope…

I maintain a good relationship with my boss by communicating clearly with him. By asking him questions about his expectations, and by providing him with information that he needs to do his job. He trusts me to do these things, despite not knowing much of my personal life, and definitely NOT because either of us "empty their thoughts."

My boss isn't my friend. He's my boss. Clear boundaries are healthy boundaries.

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#433

Post by mech422 »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #403
krageon wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Europe there are not many "remote friendly" companies This is not true. There are many such opportunities if you ask, especially now. > it's not that you will get a 20% pay rise every time you switch If you work in IT (generous, but it is HN...), this should be your experience unless you switch more than once every two years. Then everyone will mistrust you, but you can still do it as a contractor. > On top, it…

>This is not true. There are many such opportunities if you ask, especially now. Your statement definitely does not apply where I currently live (Austria). No tech company I've interviewed here is 100% remote as of now. They always expect more or less around 30-50% in office presence for new hires. They almost always have some staff at near 100% remote but those are usually tenured employees that management does not…

I just interviewed yesterday with an Austrian company from here on HN, that was 100% remote... I guess it depends on your region/vertical ?

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#434

Post by tomatotomato37 »

fluoridation wrote: post #423
robomartin wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Homes in Buenos Aires don’t have hollow walls made from wood and flimsy drywall panels. One good plumbing leak can destroy a house in the US.

Fair enough. I knew homes in the US where typically made of wood, but not that that was also true in Florida. Wood is not a traditional material here because it's obviously going to rot in a humid environment.

Yeah, only the exterior of Florida homes are concrete because we get seasons of natural disasters that like to throw palm trees everywhere. Interior & roofing is still 2x4 construction

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#435

Post by greedo »

civilized wrote: post #305
kamaal wrote: post #65

There is a big reason to Work from office, apart from the merits of the case like close collaboration, productivity et al. Most important of all is being able to see your manager on a day to day basis, a lot of people don't really understand how important seeing your bosses on a day to day basis can be to their careers. Most people have a problem of neglecting what isn't front of them, it's not malice or anything its…

Not my experience. I find that people who have good ideas and do quality work can be noticed and recognized in a remote environment. It's the mediocre that need face time to move up. I'm sure my experience is not universal and it varies a lot with team and company.

My team prior to COVID could be broken down into four categories: introverts who perform well, introverts who don't perform, extroverts who perform well and extroverts who don't perform well.

When in the office, the un-performing extroverts could schmooze, bullshit, and kiss ass to maintain status. They've lost that now, and it's obvious how they're performing (though measuring performance in IT is very tough).

The extroverts who previously performed well are doing the same, but have learned how to use online tools to maintain their status. Now it's even easier to kiss up privately to your boss or scheme with another manager behind your bosses back.

The introverts are even more interesting. Past underperformers have improved dramatically. Whether it's not having to play the Game that they're unable or uncomfortable, they've all inarguably improved. The introverts who were doing well prior to WFH are also improving, though not at as dramatic a rate.

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#436

Post by greedo »

thawaya3113 wrote: post #50

> all the benefits of working from home (no commute, more focus, hanging out with the dog, whatever it may be) More focus…hanging out with the dog… These things literally contradict each other. The fact that someone can type this out and not even realize that just goes to show why everyone is convinced they have become so much more productive WFH, when companies dhar actually track their employees and their productiv…

Found the manager.

I have my cat sitting next to me on a window ledge. Every now and then she makes a noise when she sees a bird. Totally disrupts my day. Can't focus for a good 24 hours. Yes, I'm being sarcastic.

Imagine replacing my cat with my former cubicle mates. One who has ADHD and feels the need to verbally express every thought that comes to mind. And who gets upset when he doesn't get the validation he desires. Now that disrupts my day. Add in 2000 other employees in my company, any of which can walk by my desk and ask me about XYZ.

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#438

Post by greedo »

fluoridation wrote: post #431
greedo wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP is talking about office jobs, your 2/3 stat is for all jobs. I think he's wrong though. Most office jobs should be capable of being remote, unless the mgmt is unwilling to make changes to the modern world.

Note that what I'm saying is not that most office jobs can't be done remotely at all . What I'm saying is that most can't be done remotely without harming productivity in some way. For example, if someone can do their job entirely by themselves and only needs to periodic check ins to report progress, yes, that person can remotely just fine. If someone works in a closely-knit team where interaction needs to be frequen…

I think it's incumbent on those professing a job can't be done remotely to demonstrate it. My mgmt hasn't done it beyond bland platitudes about culture and teamwork, despite record setting sales and profits the last 2 years.

It's about control for most mgmt.

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#439

Post by sologoub »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #400
sologoub wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also WFH tends to discriminate people doing "less important" jobs, You are mixing pandemic with WFH. When you work, you still need childcare and otherwise be working. Doing chores and house work during breaks is a nice “perk” that saves me time, but it must not come at the expense of the work itself, just like it would not with WFO. If anything, WFH has been more inclusive as many other comments have said, especial…

> You are mixing pandemic with WFH No, I am not. > oing chores and house work during breaks is a nice “perk” that saves me time, but it must not come at the expense of the work itself, just like it would not with WFO If people are home, they can be pressured to do more, because they literally have more time to do them and are literally physically available for exploitation. Simple as that. > If anything, WFH has been…

Care to include sources for any of these claims that you say have been observed?

I definitely don’t sell software, but I do see it as my responsibility to make sure all of my team members are heard.

On the exploitation, unfortunately domestic abuse is possible regardless of work styles and homes are not always the safe space we expect them to be. That problem exists with or without ability to work remotely. Society and employers should be aware of that and have means of helping those affected. There are many great NGOs and non-profits doing great work in this area and I’d encourage all of us to donate more to such causes and do volunteer work.

EDIT: On self segregation, that may have started that way, but demanding that people leave family ties and their friends to move for job opportunities is not all that positive either. Give people a choice and the ability to, but don’t require it. That is much friendlier and fairer.

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#440

Post by yohannparis »

wussboy wrote: post #226
ptman wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+45 is a temperature, or something else on a scale that goes below zero. >45 can be written as 45+, not +45.

For real?

Not all comments need to be read as aggressive. This sounded more informative, and personally as an ESL, helps me improve.
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