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Google terminated our Developer Account, says it is “associated”

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Re: Google terminated our Developer Account, says it is “associated”

#201

Post by dang »

gambler wrote: post #191

To all the people who think this is some sort of accident that will get corrected. It is and it isn't. This particular manifestation of ban by association might be a corrected if it gets enough pushback . The general idea, however, is something Alphabet and the rest of Big Tech clearly like, because there are more and more cases of this sort. Moreover, you likely supported this when it manifested a bit differently. M…

Generalizations about the community like that are basically spurious unless you have real data. People on all sides of every issue feel that HN is dominated by the view they happen to dislike. It's a mechanism of perception:

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re: Google terminated our Developer Account, says it is “associated”

#202

Post by antattack »

rileymat2 wrote: post #77
lima wrote: post #7

We need legislation forcing companies to manually review algorithmic decisions that impact people's lives - there has to be a proper appeals process. It's simply not economical for many companies to deal with the long tail of false positives, so they don't. Google has billions of users, and if their algorithms are 99.999% right about bans, their metrics look great but that's still tens of thousands users wrongfully b…

> We need legislation forcing companies to manually review algorithmic decisions that impact people's lives, and have a proper appeals process. What you want is human judgement, but it will be hard to legislate that. What can easily happen is the human parroting back the underlying reasons for the decision. In this case "We have reviewed your case, and according to our records the account is associated with the probl…

If human judgement is based on flawed AI output - the judgement will be flawed.

Re: Google terminated our Developer Account, says it is “associated”

#203

Post by Aeolun »

bogwog wrote: post #87
qalmakka wrote: post #22

I will say this once again: App Stores are too important in the current world to be left to the mercy of some big Internet company. I agree they should get a cut due to them being both the creators and maintainers of their platforms, but their ability to regulate what's in them should be left to a third party or government agency, just like trade is not left to its own devices and has regulators. Apple and Google are…

Figuring out a fair and effective set of laws/regulations to control how these companies run their app stores seems way too hard and unrealistic. The easier and more effective solution is to simply force them to allow alternative app stores (without suppressing competition, like Google currently does). A free market tends to correct itself in the long term, so that should solve the majority of problems plaguing the m…

> Figuring out a fair and effective set of laws/regulations to control how these companies run their app stores seems way too hard and unrealistic

Anything has to be better than what we have today…

Re: Google terminated our Developer Account, says it is “associated”

#204

Post by nightpool »

mijoharas wrote: post #190
anaccountexists wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s exactly my point though. If they hadn’t worked there in 3 years, why were they still associated with the developer account in the first place? There’s a couple of ways (that are best practices for any company) to avoid this problem: - Have separate Google accounts for work / personal use - Remove old employees from the developer account when terminated

I think that's actually the issue. There was no current association with the companies account anymore. Having separate google accounts for work and personal use does not actually solve this, since google has an algorithm to figure out if the accounts are used by the same person.[0][1] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30855682 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30855659

OP never said that "there was no current association with the companies account". In fact, they say explicitly that there was an association, because H still had permissions on an (unpublished) game that was part of their Play Store account.

Re: Google terminated our Developer Account, says it is “associated”

#205

Post by renewiltord »

Ah, interesting. I wonder if this means you can’t have your @company.com logged in at the same Chrome installation as your @personal.com.

So the only safe way is for companies to say you have to have a separate browser for @company.com?

Re: Google terminated our Developer Account, says it is “associated”

#206

Post by someotherperson »

bogwog wrote: post #87
qalmakka wrote: post #22

I will say this once again: App Stores are too important in the current world to be left to the mercy of some big Internet company. I agree they should get a cut due to them being both the creators and maintainers of their platforms, but their ability to regulate what's in them should be left to a third party or government agency, just like trade is not left to its own devices and has regulators. Apple and Google are…

Figuring out a fair and effective set of laws/regulations to control how these companies run their app stores seems way too hard and unrealistic. The easier and more effective solution is to simply force them to allow alternative app stores (without suppressing competition, like Google currently does). A free market tends to correct itself in the long term, so that should solve the majority of problems plaguing the m…

> Figuring out a fair and effective set of laws/regulations to control how these companies run their app stores seems way too hard and unrealistic.

I don't think it's hard or unrealistic to force companies to provide realistic support. Entire industries have had this established for decades.

Imagine you're renting office space and the landlord decides you've done something wrong, clears your things out and changes the locks -- refusing to tell you what you've done or allow your business to continue to operate. This sounds extremely unrealistic because it is, in the real world you'd take them to court and sue them for losses. And there is plenty of legislation behind it to support you.

Similarly, having companies like Google become accountable like this isn't actually that hard. There just isn't any will to do so at the moment and livelihoods will continue to be destroyed in the interim.

Re: Google terminated our Developer Account, says it is “associated”

#207

Post by Closi »

kmeisthax wrote: post #59

Everyone here is commenting about overautomation, but this isn't an overautomation problem. It's a secondary sanctions problem. The developer isn't being banned for breaking Google's rules, he's being banned for having hired someone else who later broke those rules; and then that ban was transitively applied to their personal account as well. This is beyond the pale. Google should not have the power to decide who you…

> Everyone here is commenting about overautomation, but this isn't an overautomation problem. It's a secondary sanctions problem.

It's both. When you work with tech companies this kind of overautomation is rife. When you work with any other type of business they give you an account manager and you manage these issues openly together with a relationship. If there was a human at Google who picked up the phone and worked out the problem with the developers before this ban was imposed, this could have all been nipped-in-the-bud before an account was terminated.

My current account doesn't have much money in it, but my bank would call me if there is an issue which would terminate my account, and I'm confident that they would work with me to offer up solutions rather than instantly terminate it. Google should provide developers more respect than my bank offers average consumers.

There is no excuse for them not picking up the phone and just talking these things through before they implement the bans (unless there is active malicious behaviour in an app, in which case I would expect a suspension to happen and be followed up with a phone call straight away).

Re: Google terminated our Developer Account, says it is “associated”

#208

Post by whymauri »

Once again, the resolution of this problem will come down to either the OP knowing a Google employee or a Google employee happening to see this and feeling pity. For the vast majority of people who deal with Google support and don't have access to Google employees how many of us on HN do, when the hammer strikes: they are completely out of options.

I have such little trust in Google's automation for banning accounts that I don't even bother commenting on Youtube or uploading videos anymore. Who know when some innocuous footage that I have will trigger a cascade of copyright strikes and ban my personal GMail? It's like walking around glass.

Re: Google terminated our Developer Account, says it is “associated”

#210

Post by nightpool »

jhgb wrote: post #183
freedomben wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless your bank account balance is at least $50,000, I doubt the bank will do anything about it besides have a manager tell you "I'm sorry there's nothing we can do" which is little better than an automated email.

That may very well depend on how regulated the banking industry is in your country.

You're right. In less regulated countries, they may be more lenient. But in countries with strong anti-fraud and anti-moneylaundering regulations, banks often will take the most risk-adverse course, which is to terminate accounts for very little reason and at the slightest hint of bad behavior.

I'm not against government regulation of these sorts of decisions, but to pretend that the regulations we currently have are consumer-focused in every aspect is just completely burying your head in the sand. Read https://bam.kalzumeus.com/archive/moving-money-international..., and especially the "Tiniest bit of personal opinion" section for a clearer explanation of the problems with the way banking regulation currently works.

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