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The Beatle Who Got Away

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Re: The Beatle Who Got Away

#61

Post by lioeters »

dsr_ wrote: post #47
subpixel wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My musician friends were offended at the Beatles’ musicianship watching that film. It’s hard to realize that being great isn’t good enough, you need lightning to strike and you need to be there when it happens.

Interesting. The biggest thing I took away from it was how unplanned everything was. I can no longer listen to a Beatles album and ask "why did they decide to do this, and then that?" as I used to. Now I know that nobody had a plan: they had an infinite series of accidents and then edited -- or not.

I got a similar feeling from the documentary. Some of those songs seem so perfect, as if they were born that way - but the actual creative process was messy, with various wrong turns it could have taken, fumbling around in the unknown.

I also feel like I understand better how miracles like Sgt. Pepper happened - not by careful planning or having a clear design at the start, but taking the time, day after day, working on ideas, noodling and joking around, sometimes arguing with each other, sometimes discovering happy accidents.. And every take is different!

Re: The Beatle Who Got Away

#62

Post by microtonal »

dsr_ wrote: post #47
subpixel wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My musician friends were offended at the Beatles’ musicianship watching that film. It’s hard to realize that being great isn’t good enough, you need lightning to strike and you need to be there when it happens.

Interesting. The biggest thing I took away from it was how unplanned everything was. I can no longer listen to a Beatles album and ask "why did they decide to do this, and then that?" as I used to. Now I know that nobody had a plan: they had an infinite series of accidents and then edited -- or not.

I wonder though how representative Get Back was for a Beatles recording session. The band was clearly imploding and in contrast to prior albums, they didn't have a lot of songs prepared yet. There are the famous Esher demos that were recorded before The White Album. And even though they are acoustic, a lot of songs seem to be worked out already. Of course, they've put all kinds of extra touches on them in the studio, but they'd work pretty well for "The White Album - Unplugged".

I was surprised how even under the circumstances stuff comes together pretty quickly. Like how McCartney makes up the main melody of Get Back in seconds while jamming, as if he is just picking it out of the air (assuming that it wasn't staged for the camera). Then once Lennon puts his mind to the sessions again, there is clearly a very strong chemistry between Lennon and McCartney where they are just having fun and tweaking and evolving the songs at a rapid pace.

Re: The Beatle Who Got Away

#63

Post by brtkdotse »

dsr_ wrote: post #47
subpixel wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My musician friends were offended at the Beatles’ musicianship watching that film. It’s hard to realize that being great isn’t good enough, you need lightning to strike and you need to be there when it happens.

Interesting. The biggest thing I took away from it was how unplanned everything was. I can no longer listen to a Beatles album and ask "why did they decide to do this, and then that?" as I used to. Now I know that nobody had a plan: they had an infinite series of accidents and then edited -- or not.

It's almost like there's some truth to the "Trying to make dozens of shitty pots actually produces better pots than trying to make a single perfect pot".

Iteration eats inspiration for breakfast.

https://austinkleon.com/2020/12/10/quantity-leads-to-quality...

Re: The Beatle Who Got Away

#64

Post by jwally »

In case anyone was unaware (like I was until a month ago)..."Beatles" is a pun that I never picked up on (beat - like the musical unit of time => 'beat'les).

I guess I don't run into enough beetle related situations in my life that anyone or anything corrected me.

Re: The Beatle Who Got Away

#65

Post by dmd »

jwally wrote: post #64

In case anyone was unaware (like I was until a month ago)..."Beatles" is a pun that I never picked up on (beat - like the musical unit of time => 'beat'les). I guess I don't run into enough beetle related situations in my life that anyone or anything corrected me.

There's the xkcd 10000, and then there's this.

Re: The Beatle Who Got Away

#66

Post by swores »

WalterBright wrote: post #2

It's one of those things where, if anything was different, the arc of the Beatles would have been completely different, or not at all. The Butterfly Effect.

That doesn't necessarily mean that this exact arc was the only possible one that could turn out well, or even that it's the best one. Just as any number of small things could have derailed things and led to them being an obscure trivia answer, surely small things could also have made things even better or last longer.

Re: The Beatle Who Got Away

#67

Post by amarant »

jwally wrote: post #64

In case anyone was unaware (like I was until a month ago)..."Beatles" is a pun that I never picked up on (beat - like the musical unit of time => 'beat'les). I guess I don't run into enough beetle related situations in my life that anyone or anything corrected me.

I always thought it was an ironic pun, Beatles -> beat less

As if the biggest rock band of all time didn't have any beat!

Whenever I try to tell anyone how I like the joke, they look at me like I'm crazy and tell me I made it up myself

I'm not sure if it was actually intended or not, but it's a pretty good pun regardless!

Re: The Beatle Who Got Away

#68

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

JohnBooty wrote: post #46
quxbar wrote: post #4

I tend to think of The Beatles as a fantastic world-spanning pachinko game. Once Ww2 ended and a mass boom of young people with disposable income crossed with new mass media markets and advances in recording distribution technology, it was inevitable that some act or another would be the first-to-market with catchy tunes and stadium-filling star power. Heck, even the stadiums were a modern combination of improved bui…

it was inevitable that some act or another would be the first-to-market with catchy tunes and stadium-filling star power. This is a profound misunderstanding of how weird and unlikely the Beatles phenomenon was. Post-WWII acts with catchy tunes and star power were already abundant before the Beatles. They were not special in that regard. What was unique about the cosmic accident that was the Beatles? 1. Happened to b…

Also relevant was the UK art school system, which up until the 80s or so was a practical career path for creative working class kids.

There was also the dole (unemployment benefit) system which provided just enough cash to allow bands and musicians to start a career without being forced into a full-time job.

A ridiculous number of high profile UK musicians from the 60s and 70s came through art school or adjacent courses like architecture, not music college.

Re: The Beatle Who Got Away

#69

Post by dahart »

quxbar wrote: post #4

I tend to think of The Beatles as a fantastic world-spanning pachinko game. Once Ww2 ended and a mass boom of young people with disposable income crossed with new mass media markets and advances in recording distribution technology, it was inevitable that some act or another would be the first-to-market with catchy tunes and stadium-filling star power. Heck, even the stadiums were a modern combination of improved bui…

The article paints a picture of playing shows at an absolutely insane frenetic pace, averaging two shows a days for months at a time, in unfamiliar places, not even knowing the language, with demanding and wildly varying audiences. Having been in a band and gigging around my local town, a bit, I can’t even imagine touring in another country and doing multiple shows per day month after month - especially as a fresh band just starting out and barely knowing the instruments. There’s no question this ‘trial by fire’ would have killed some bands and propelled others. While it’s true that some act or another would make it, it’s also true that the spoils may have gone to one of the bands that was working the hardest and trying the most things. In HN parlance, what they did was a huge extended and very hands-on A/B test, gathering a lot of data to figure out what works and what doesn’t. I guess my point is to at least somewhat acknowledge that they really put in the work, and not frame it as pure luck.

Re: The Beatle Who Got Away

#70

Post by JohnBooty »

oska wrote: post #49
JohnBooty wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it was inevitable that some act or another would be the first-to-market with catchy tunes and stadium-filling star power. This is a profound misunderstanding of how weird and unlikely the Beatles phenomenon was. Post-WWII acts with catchy tunes and star power were already abundant before the Beatles. They were not special in that regard. What was unique about the cosmic accident that was the Beatles? 1. Happened to b…

This was a really good answer but I also don't think it invalidates the GP's point. There was a particular set-up at a particular time that meant that pop music was going to go very big and that explains more of The Beatles phenomenal success than your very interesting points do. Your answer explains some of how The Beatles became more than the average pop group but they still ("She loves me, yeah, yeah, yeah") start…

GP stated that the Beatles were inevitable, that somebody would have come along with catchy songs and "star power."

That part of the GP's post makes little sense to me. There were plenty of post-WWII (and pre-WWII) popular music stars who fit that description.

Yes, an endless parade of popular music stars was inevitable, but something like the Beatles wasn't. Pop would have evolved with or without them, of course, but their impact was insane.

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