The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices • Hacker News Board

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#311

Post by civilized » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 1:30 PM UTC

silicon2401 wrote: post #250

Gigachad wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The office is not as bad as people make it out to be. Its commuting that really sucks. I used to hate working in the office and then I moved to an apartment next to work and I decided to walk in even while WFH was an option because I did slightly prefer going to the office and being with everyone.

> The office is not as bad as people make it out to be Correction: "[my] office is not as bad [for me] as [other] people make [their offices] out to be [for them]" Every office I've worked in has been horrible to work in. I hate being around other people, the random distractions of office noises/smells/etc, and I hate not having control over my environment so that I can be comfortable. For people like me who specific…

> For people like me who specifically want to not see other humans unless they're family or friends, it really is that bad.

Thank you! I'm going to use this.

Other than my family and friends, the humans I regularly deal with are somewhere between terrible and mediocre. If they weren't, they'd be my friends.

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#312

Post by afiori » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 1:32 PM UTC

helen___keller wrote: post #277

lukebuehler wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How long until climate change or expensive gasoline forces people to just stay home?? Yes, this is just the beginning of the end. I would even say this is the beginning of the end for cities as we know them. I think 80-90% of all white collar jobs will leave cities and suburbia. This will really change the dynamics.

> I would even say this is the beginning of the end for cities as we know them. Alternate POV: this could save cities as we know them. All top American cities have been struggling for about 20 years now to handle urban growth, as cost of living goes through the roof and small businesses disappear when their renewed lease comes at twice the rent. As always, the survivors are those who can afford the change: homeowners…

To add a reference:

Suburbia is Subsidized: Here's the Math -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI

Essentially urban sprawl/suburbia/single family homes cost more for the city (road upkeep, water/gas pipes, etc.) than what they contribute in taxes, so many cities are in a positive feedback loop of building more houses to get quick money to do maintenance on the previous rounds of growth.

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#313

Post by afiori » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 1:35 PM UTC

incomingpain wrote: post #270

Ensorceled wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is the tenability of cities without fossil fuels? I think we do know, it's really the cities that collapse. I walk everywhere. It's suburbs that collapse without fossil fuels. > How does public transit work? Generally speaking they are all diesel. Do we have a plan to spend a trillion $ converting this all to electric? Our subways have always been electric. Our street cars are electric, and have been for a cen…

>I walk everywhere. It's suburbs that collapse without fossil fuels. I think shooting from the hip the suburbs hurt without fossil fuels for a short time. However, who are the people buying teslas it's rich folks in the suburbs. Who in 10 years will be driving the gasoline toyota econobox. It's the poor in the cities. >Our subways have always been electric. That doesnt cover everything. Not all cities have a subway.…

> much of NYC subway is still diesel for various reasons

NYC subway still uses cloth bathed in oil to insulate some electrical circuits.

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#314

Post by fartcannon » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 1:35 PM UTC

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #303

osigurdson wrote: post #258

I don't think there is anything else more illogical in modern society than waking up in building A, hopping in a car and fighting traffic for an hour to get to building B just to sit in front of a computer for 8 hours (perhaps with a few minimally productive meetings here and there), then commute back to building A 8 hours later. Building B sits empty for 16 hours a day while Building A sits empty for 10 with both be…

it's also a cultural thing. US commute is particularly bad, I work from home and been doing it on and off for the past 20 years. My commute has never been longer than 20 minutes total. I now live 5 minutes walk away from my office, I'm not going, but if I had to I would walk there and have a very nice breakfast in some bar on the road there. One thing that's always overlooked is how much WFH is selecting people who a…

It'll be nice when the serf mentality of finding meaning in your job is finally gone from the world.

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#315

Post by greedo » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 1:36 PM UTC

rickspencer3 wrote: post #243

I have a cynical view about this, but also expect it all to come out in the wash over time. My cynical view is that some older executives are, indeed, not as effective in remote companies and younger ones, because they have no practice running remote companies and haven't adapted. Additionally, many senior and middle managers never figured out how to assess and reward actual productivity on their teams, so relied on…

Bullseye. The company I work for has a large home office, plus a satellite office tower in the same city. Plus a satellite office in a second city. So even before COVID, we were working with users remotely. We own all three buildings and land, and have always been proud of that for some reason. Very emotionally invested in the Home office.

Obviously COVID changed all that and exposed the opposition to remote work as just obstructionist. Our company was 100% remote for over two years, and both sales and profits have never been higher. Yet some of management really just can't deal with it now. Ironically, the IT mgmt is the one most opposed to remote work and barely signed off on a hybrid model.

I'm in the same age cohort as most of our executives, and though your comment may seem ageist, I think it's spot on. These VPs and managers love to schmooze, have $$ lunches, golf with vendors etc. Their entire work life is designed around schmoozing and building their little networks with vendors so they have a safe landing spot if things go bad in their careers.

You might say this is the same as ICs who build networks, but I don't get paid to network. I don't recommend technologies based on who I golf with.

Mgmt needs to realize they can't unring this bell, and will continue to lose effective performers who (especially in IT) have more options since COVID.

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#316

Post by JumpCrisscross » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 1:37 PM UTC

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #303

osigurdson wrote: post #258

I don't think there is anything else more illogical in modern society than waking up in building A, hopping in a car and fighting traffic for an hour to get to building B just to sit in front of a computer for 8 hours (perhaps with a few minimally productive meetings here and there), then commute back to building A 8 hours later. Building B sits empty for 16 hours a day while Building A sits empty for 10 with both be…

it's also a cultural thing. US commute is particularly bad, I work from home and been doing it on and off for the past 20 years. My commute has never been longer than 20 minutes total. I now live 5 minutes walk away from my office, I'm not going, but if I had to I would walk there and have a very nice breakfast in some bar on the road there. One thing that's always overlooked is how much WFH is selecting people who a…

> it's also a cultural thing

Good places to see this are New York and New Orleans.

New Orleans' French and Spanish quarters have residences on top of business concerns. We Americans, on the other hand, built separate residential and commercial neighborhoods with a train connecting the two.

Likewise for Manhattan. Dutch-settled areas have homes on top of shops. This pattern continues for a bit under the British, but converts to distinct residential and commercial streets before going whole hog on the pattern with non-commercial neighborhoods.

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#317

Post by JumpCrisscross » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 1:38 PM UTC

fartcannon wrote: post #314

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's also a cultural thing. US commute is particularly bad, I work from home and been doing it on and off for the past 20 years. My commute has never been longer than 20 minutes total. I now live 5 minutes walk away from my office, I'm not going, but if I had to I would walk there and have a very nice breakfast in some bar on the road there. One thing that's always overlooked is how much WFH is selecting people who a…

It'll be nice when the serf mentality of finding meaning in your job is finally gone from the world.

> when the serf mentality of finding meaning in your job is finally gone from the world

Emperors, scientists and other productive members of the elite have done this since age immemorial. If anything, the average person finding their work meaningful (versus simply toil) is a recent phenomenon.

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#318

Post by greedo » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 1:38 PM UTC

bearjaws wrote: post #310

rickspencer3 wrote: post #243

I have a cynical view about this, but also expect it all to come out in the wash over time. My cynical view is that some older executives are, indeed, not as effective in remote companies and younger ones, because they have no practice running remote companies and haven't adapted. Additionally, many senior and middle managers never figured out how to assess and reward actual productivity on their teams, so relied on…

> My cynical view is that some older executives are, indeed, not as effective in remote companies and younger ones At the beginning of the pandemic, all our "boomer" leadership couldn't even properly share their screen on zoom. We then switched to Teams, and they couldn't figure that out either. I actually in a one on one suggested all of senior leadership should take a class on remote work, and Teams, because 90% of…

Two years into the pandemic, we still have executives who can't be bothered to learn something as simple as how to mute their microphones during a Teams meeting. I think it's a subconscious reaction to the idea of them being muted. In a normal meeting, no one would ever think to mute them since they're so high on the food chain.

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#319

Post by asdf333 » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 1:39 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #308

horsawlarway wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many climates require it. May through August in Atlanta it doesn't really make sense to turn the AC off while out of the house (down a few degrees, sure - but not off). You're going to either pay for the ac to run normal cycles while you're out, or you're going to pay for the ac to run full blast for an hour at 6pm when you get home to bring the temp from 90+ back down to ~78 (which is still in the peak power rate ti…

Turning the AC or heating completely off when you're not at home is never recommended. To save power, you just let them run at temperatures a few degrees outside your comfort zone when your away, and it will still have enough thermal inertia to quickly get back to comfort levels when you're back without the risk of condensation/mold. Where I live, this is even written in my rental agreement, that when I leave home fo…

this is probably more due to pipes freezing

Re: The worst part of working from home is now haunting reopened offices

#320

Post by larrymyers » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 1:40 PM UTC

lukebuehler wrote: post #200

incomingpain wrote: post #186

A ton of businesses are dealing with a bad hand right now. They know they cant successfully force everyone back to the office. If news goes out about X entity is going back to the office. Recruiters go to linkedin and reach out to all of those people and offer them work from home and a raise. Flipside, if you dont go back to the office. What are going doing holding so much $ and costs for nothing? Everyone who realiz…

> How long until climate change or expensive gasoline forces people to just stay home?? Yes, this is just the beginning of the end. I would even say this is the beginning of the end for cities as we know them. I think 80-90% of all white collar jobs will leave cities and suburbia. This will really change the dynamics.

I expect that opposite will happen. Cities that are built for people (and not cars) will thrive. Nobody wants to drive everywhere. Cities that support multi-modal transportation and have mixed residential / commercial centers will thrive.

Chicago does this well. From my front door I have the follow options:

  * The El (train, local stops)
  * Metra (train, commuter that gets out to the burbs)
  * Bus
  * Taxi
  * Divvy (e-bike rentals)
  * Personal bike
  * Walking

... and finally, yes, I can drive. But driving sucks. It's slow, expensive, and you still have to find parking.