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$625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

roninblockchain.substack.com

591–600 of 761 posts

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#591

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Right now they're immature, but I'm hopeful that advancements in ZK-tech will allow practical ZK-rollups. ZKSync already has a zk-evm testnet running (which I believe is based on zk-llvm), so we're close. Currently all the big rollups have master keys which can be used to steal all the money deposited by them, but there's no reason in principle they have to have this. Polygon has permissionless rollups, so I'm quite…

> Right now they're immature It's 14 years old. The community has had a fix for all of these problems just over the horizon for a decade. It just isn't coming. The real issue is that most of the crypto being held is held by people who don't care about using it as currency or for anonymity, they're using it as an "investment". That's why when coins that work better as cash or privacy or whatever come out, nobody cares…

Anyone can make anything which supposedly “works better as cash”.

How will they create confidence in the money, though?

In addition, please bear in mind aluminium and copper are more _generally useful_ than gold.

We cannot state, therefore, a money’s usefulness is more important than the hardness of the money: i.e. its scarcity and resistance to fundamental change.

This is likely why most competing currencies these days claim to be “decentralized”. It’s really just their way of claiming hardness without openly admitting to such.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#592
post #559

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> So does crypto It doesn't. Everyone who claims otherwise can't come up with a single credible example.

Buying a subscription to gay.com from Syria. Your on the clock..

>> It doesn't. Everyone who claims otherwise can't come up with a single credible example.

> Buying a subscription to gay.com from Syria.

That is not a credible example. Here are some reasons:

1) Paying for porn? Paying for porn when the implication is that it's illegal and could get you in trouble? Who would do that?

2) Cryptocurrency isn't anonymous, and is usually highly traceable.

3) And even if it was anonymous, what good will it do when your DNS lookups will divulge you're looking at gay porn?

4) Oh, so now someone's supposed to be using some elaborate TOR/VPN setup in a repressive country, just so they can pay for porn?

5) What, exactly is the process for converting Syrian Pounds into cryptocurrency again?

6) etc.

> Your on the clock..

Why were you so confident in your non-credible example?

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#593
post #505

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curious - “can your blockchain be validated with regular hardware” - why is this a point you call out? is it that specialized equipment is not easily accessible and thus not truly decentralized?

Yes. Bitcoin can be validated with with regular hardware, thus full nodes are cheap and ubiquitous and results in a system that's highly decentralized. Even if a 51% were to hypothetically happen with miners, the full nodes will stop it. Ethereum and many others with massive blocks cannot be validated with regular hardware as there's too much computational power/storage involved. The majority of Ethereum nodes are by…

You can sync a full ethereum node (all blocks with all transactions and fully verified current state) on a rasberry pi with a 1TB ssd. With 3TB of ssd space, you can even have an archival node (the above, but with all the state history changes cleanly indexed by account, which is only really needed if you want to run a block explorer).

The issue for ethereum flat out isn't the hardware requirements, its laziness. Infura, Alchemy, et al make a very convenient shortcut for impatient folks and that is why they get used. The good news is that there is a ton of real development going into light clients that can trustlessly get and interact with with the current state of the chain within a few minutes of launching and can even run within a web browser.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who knows anything about human systems knows that that's the end point: We'll be right back to banking as it is today, except with less efficiency and a ton of wasted time and technology that could have been spent making the current systems better.

There's an analogy to be made with the internet and WWW. In some ways everything did revert from the early wild west days of the web to a small number of curated and censored walled gardens (Facebook, etc.) but it's not accurate at all to say that things reverted to a pre-internet status quo.

I think you can understand a lot about a technology or system by who is hyped about it and when.

Very early in the bitcoin days, cryptocurrencies were pretty interesting because it was nerds playing with a new kind of distributed systems computational tool. "Hey, here's a way to create widely available data without trust! Neat, what can we do with that?"

But for the past several years, it's clear to me that the majority of people in crypto are excited about getting rich. They generally strike me as the exact same kind of people that would be prospecting in the Yukon in the 1800s. They don't care about geology in itself, they care about what they can sell the gold for.

Ultimately, those kinds of people are exploiters and extractors. They may generate wealth and some of it may flow outwards to others, but I personally find that they do produce little that has any real meaning. The wealth they produce might coincidentally get used for something meaningful, but even that's a crapshoot. No one remembers the name of the dude who found the biggest gold ingot and that's likely for good reason.

I don't think the early days of the web were similar. Yes, it was initially nerds and then there was a huge rush of people trying to get rich. But at least the ones trying to get rich were trying to get rich by making something useful to others. It felt less like a gold rush and more like the westward expansion. More farmers than miners. The web was a place to make new things and not simply a direct means to play financial games.

The crypto bros—despite spinning up lots of businesses and coins and pretty websites with fancy logos—ultimately aren't out to make anything that touches anyone's lives. Imagine if one day all of the money disappeared from crypto and all promise of any future money evaporated. You could still do all the same crypto stuff, there was just no hope of making a dime. The whole system would collapse overnight.

That's not true with the web. Sure, a lot of businesses wouldn't be able to afford to keep running, but many of the people making stuff on the web would do their best to keep making their stuff on the web, because it was more about the stuff itself than the money.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#595
post #164

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Because there are people in the world who can wake up and have lost all money they had deposited in a bank. There are people who have to pay 20% transfer fees to move money overseas. There are people who don't have the ability to open a bank account. There are people who can lose all their banked money if their government doesn't like them. The first world doesn't have these problems. Crypto is a bigger play than 'ge…

Where in the world is it common to lose all money deposited in a bank? And, why not just create better banks?

Brazil circa 92 when president Collor froze everyone's account in an attempt to stop inflation.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#596
post #495

As usual on HN there are a lot of useless comments in this thread that are ill-informed dunks on cryptocurrency, but the real story of what happened is actually about the hazards of not using a blockchain. The system that was compromised was a "proof of authority" chain. These are different from proof of work or proof of stake chains that have hundreds or thousands of distinct validators. In a "proof of authority" ch…

Most cryptocurrency dunking is because of exactly what you describe: the technology, in its purest form, can avoid a certain category of problems... but those problems are rarely relevant and instead the "cryptocurrency" industry is just a bunch of people chanting the word "blockchain" over and over again as they code their way into a plate of spaghetti.

Axie Infinity is one of the shining stars of the cryptocurrency world, it's the game that'll change the world for the better by bringing people out of poverty... oh, wait, no, it's just another shit show. Whether they got hacked in this way or not, whether they used a blockchain or not, it wouldn't change the fundamental reality that Axie Infinity is a garbage fire, and that's why people are well-informed when they are dunking on cryptocurrency, because even in its purest most magical well used form, it's literally a database. A database!

The idea that Axie Infinity was great EXCEPT FOR the choice not to use a blockchain is so far from reality. I'd go as far as to say this hack is merciful and will finally bring an end to yet another bullshit, predatory project. The hacker has done the world a service, half-a-billion is a fair reward.

(I don't want to distract from my point that this is all bullshit, but in these parentheses I'll add that your point doesn't follow, because the fact that they use a side chain with centralised validators is immaterial. The hack happened because private keys were stolen, which is just as much of a vulnerability if this happened entirely on the main ethereum chain where acquiring the various private keys required to create a legitimate multi-signature is just as possible. You're assuming if they had "just" used a blockchain they would have magically been smart enough not to keep keys lying around where they could be misused... the key takeaway here is that a technology that can be party to a half-a-billion loss because someone was dumb is not good technology)

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * Giving criminals and scammers the ability to exchange goods and services anonymously. Doesn't cash do the same thing?

Cash doesn't scale, doesn't work remotely and, in any case, cash is actually useful for legitimate purposes, like snorting cocaine.

How was Escobar able to build a multi million dollar empire if cash does not scale?

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#598
post #458

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This is exactly why crypto is such a disaster. Every week there is yet another scam where people losing their money. The feedback from crypto enthusiasts is well look at those idiots for putting their money into some scheme or you are not smart enough use this thing. Look "nobody" understands what you are talking about. These financial systems are inscrutable and the problem is getting worse. You are building systems…

You are neglecting to mention the great upsides in crypto currency. * Giving criminals and scammers the ability to exchange goods and services anonymously. * Providing a source of funding North Korea's nuclear weapons program * Allowing nation states to engage in global commerce despite sanctions because they won't stop killing innocent people * Convincing older and gullible people to give their money to someone they…

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Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#599
post #183

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> I don't recall last time seeing news on someone's bank account being hacked and drained, if anything its mostly family fraud. Anecdote time. My wife and I have a shared checking account that got hacked and drained. First her debit card got skimmed. Then the perp called USAA a half dozen times claiming to be her and asking for account credentials. Finally they got a helpful account rep to reset the password, disable…

I just want to point out that this comment is exactly why social engineering is a problem. You have been a victim of what happens when a company doesn't put in enough effort to verify the identity of the person they have on the phone. Yet when that company starts putting in that effort, you object and call it a "punishment". Convenience and security are often in direct competition with each other. Almost all of us wo…

When I was in a lot of debt, banks outsourced collections agency called many times on a private number and wanted me to verify myself before they would verify themselves. No. Bank denied they would do that but that was lies. They couldn’t even admit to trying to get in contact with me. Collections agency couldn’t even play the theoretically game of maybe there’s a certain someone out there, who knows who, who hasn’t paid off a credit card, maybe this certain someone would want to consider going into his bank and having a chat but that’s not for me to say ah capishe? I’ve got a rock you’ve got a sword how are we gonna play this out? Good times haha

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#600
post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why crypto is such a disaster. Every week there is yet another scam where people losing their money. The feedback from crypto enthusiasts is well look at those idiots for putting their money into some scheme or you are not smart enough use this thing. Look "nobody" understands what you are talking about. These financial systems are inscrutable and the problem is getting worse. You are building systems…

Because the creator of crypto concept never understood why there are centralized institutions in the first place. It was so naive to think the problem was the correctness of the records and thus everyone should keep a copy of the global ledger!! I hardly if not never heard of any fraud that actually altered records held by the authority institutions and in fact, in all the fraud cases I know the records held by the a…

People have been cooking the books forever. WorldCom or Tyco being examples.
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