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$625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

roninblockchain.substack.com

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Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#541

Post by thinkmassive »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #522
thinkmassive wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of it IS the individual block size though. Individual blocks might seem small, but there's a lot more of them. Ethereum dApps store a LOT of state directly on the base chain. The other scalability disaster is making every node validate every instruction of a Turing-complete scripting language, which results in insane "gas fees" (or loss of fees when you didn't supply quite enough for the script to fully execute)…

> (or loss of fees when you didn't supply quite enough for the script to fully execute). Are they planning to address this in any of the updates on their timeline? This turned me off from ETH completely, just feels like a house-always-wins situation skimming money from users.

No idea, Ethereum was an intriguing experiment for the first few years, but it’s seemed like a dead end for a while now

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#542

Post by jazzyjackson »

tcgv wrote: post #473
ozten wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, I missed that detail. I do think the larger question of DAOs replacing trust with code/law is worth further discussion.

After following the DeFi space for over a year now I've come to the conclusiong that "code is law" is a fallacy. If you come to the possession of funds that were not intended to be in your possession by exployting bugs or vulnerabilities, and other parties are significantly harmed in this process, then you will be in a position to face criminal charges... Well that is unless one can maintain anonymity indefinitely. O…

Funny that it's kind of the same paradox as robbing a bank the old fashioned away. Congrats, you have millions of dollars of cash, good luck spending it without anyone asking "hey where'd you get all this money" / bragging to a friend

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#543

Post by whiskyant »

viksit wrote: post #505
Barrera wrote: post #225

This is the kind of pain that comes from trusting scammers and nincompoops about unworkable blockchain "scalability" fixes. Here's the sequence. Those dumb enough to ignore it are doomed to repeat the pattern. I'm probably getting some details wrong in this Rube Goldberg scheme, so feel free to correct. 1. Citing "Ethereum network congestion," Axie Infinity announces an ethereum side chain, Ronin.[1] 2. Ronin was a c…

curious - “can your blockchain be validated with regular hardware” - why is this a point you call out? is it that specialized equipment is not easily accessible and thus not truly decentralized?

Yes. Bitcoin can be validated with with regular hardware, thus full nodes are cheap and ubiquitous and results in a system that's highly decentralized. Even if a 51% were to hypothetically happen with miners, the full nodes will stop it.

Ethereum and many others with massive blocks cannot be validated with regular hardware as there's too much computational power/storage involved. The majority of Ethereum nodes are by 3rd party services which use cloud services such as AWS. Additionally, essential services such as Infura which the majority of apps rely on are basically entirely centralized.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#544

Post by cowvin »

mrep wrote: post #480
zkldi wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just a poke: it was 5K Eth ($16,924,050), not 5K USD, but i agree with your wager.

God damn, 17 million stolen forever from 1 person and there is nothing they can do about it.

Even more shocking, is why someone would hand 17 million dollars worth of assets to a random company that has no security apparently.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#545

Post by Nextgrid »

Guest19023892 wrote: post #373
Hackbraten wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have stopped using credit cards for two reasons: 1. My debit cards allow me to directly import transactions into my personal accounting software while my credit cards don’t; and 2. when I shop online, my debit cards allow me to use them as a 2nd factor (using a USB card reader) while my credit cards require either an iOS or Android device for 2FA. You’re right in that a credit card is a future charge and debit isn’…

Credit card transactions are much easier to reverse. For example, I went to a restaurant and a few days later I noticed they double charged the bill. I called the restaurant, they wouldn't fix the issue, so I called the credit card company and it was quickly reversed. That doesn't happen with a debit card. Credit cards also come with all sorts of benefits. You can easily get 1-2% off all purchases through cash-back o…

> That doesn't happen with a debit card.

Citation needed.

The scenario you described will absolutely fall under most card networks' transaction dispute rules. In day-to-day spending a debit card is just as safe as a credit card when it comes to fraud or malicious merchants.

The only time a credit card will be better is grey areas where a card network dispute doesn't succeed, in which case the law in most countries forces the credit card provider to eat the loss. In some of those cases, the reason why a credit card chargeback succeeds is not necessarily because you are right (if you were, the dispute process would've succeeded anyway) but because the amount is too low for the issuer to care so they just eat it to not have to investigate and/or litigate the issue.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#546

Post by jazzyjackson »

mistrial9 wrote: post #173
kache_ wrote: post #118

Working as intended! God I love crypto, it's the fuckin wild west out there If you don't want the government in your business, you're going to have to dispense with all the advantages that big daddy affords you

yes, a deal between the parties, with all the risk and reward that goes with it.. really eye-opening to see all the comments wishing for an all-powerful referee to check every outcome and action in private affairs

it's true, I would choose modern civilization over the wild west

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#547

Post by iskander »

woah wrote: post #495

As usual on HN there are a lot of useless comments in this thread that are ill-informed dunks on cryptocurrency, but the real story of what happened is actually about the hazards of not using a blockchain. The system that was compromised was a "proof of authority" chain. These are different from proof of work or proof of stake chains that have hundreds or thousands of distinct validators. In a "proof of authority" ch…

The security practice here is even worse than what you're describing, the company servers had been authorized to sign on behalf of the DAO, so only one compromise was required to get 5/9 validators.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#548

Post by dmitriid »

Sargos wrote: post #511
allturtles wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see how this is any different than the bog standard "encryption lets criminals and scammers the ability to exchange goods and services anonymously." The obvious difference is that encryption has many, many actually useful and productive applications.

>encryption has many, many actually useful and productive applications So does crypto but likewise opponents of encryption disregard the positives and focus on the negatives to align with their preformed ideas. The only way out of this trap is to have an open mind and internalize the fact that all technologies can be used for good and evil and thus are relatively neutral overall. Humanity must take the good and bad a…

> So does crypto

It doesn't. Everyone who claims otherwise can't come up with a single credible example.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#549

Post by 3np »

spicymaki wrote: post #409
Barrera wrote: post #225

This is the kind of pain that comes from trusting scammers and nincompoops about unworkable blockchain "scalability" fixes. Here's the sequence. Those dumb enough to ignore it are doomed to repeat the pattern. I'm probably getting some details wrong in this Rube Goldberg scheme, so feel free to correct. 1. Citing "Ethereum network congestion," Axie Infinity announces an ethereum side chain, Ronin.[1] 2. Ronin was a c…

This is exactly why crypto is such a disaster. Every week there is yet another scam where people losing their money. The feedback from crypto enthusiasts is well look at those idiots for putting their money into some scheme or you are not smart enough use this thing. Look "nobody" understands what you are talking about. These financial systems are inscrutable and the problem is getting worse. You are building systems…

I mean, you could replace "crypto" with "internet", "computers" or "collectible sidechain NFTs" depending on how big the tribe you want to attack is. Or for example

> This is exactly why the cloud is such a disaster. Every week there is yet another scam where people losing their money. The feedback from cloud hosting enthusiasts is well look at those idiots for putting their money into some scheme or you are not smart enough use this thing. Look "nobody" understands what you are talking about. These technical systems are inscrutable and the problem is getting worse. You are building systems that are ruining peoples lives and making things worse for everyone. Please think about what you are doing and create system of value and meaning which improves humankind.

----

This line of reasoning is what may very well lead to a ban on end-to-end encryption and public access to non-backdoored general computing.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#550

Post by motoboi »

paxys wrote: post #88
dpiers wrote: post #31

I'm out of the loop and trying to understand - people lent over half a billion dollars of their 'real' fake money (ETH) to a game studio so they could transact on the studio's sidechain because gas fees are prohibitively expensive on ETH, and then the game studio got hacked and lost it all? How was this ever going to end any other way? Imagine how preposterous the idea of storing $650mm in USD in a random game studio…

Giving $650mm in USD to a random company is still infinitely safer than doing so with crypto. If a regulated bank claims they got hacked and lost that amount, there are a slew of federal and state laws and agencies in place to investigate it. With crypto, it could very well be in the wallet of the CEO or IT guy and no one would know.

Just as a side note, people give Starbuck literally billions every year. Not sure what would happend if starbucks get hacked and lost people money.
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