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FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

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Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#111

Post by mindslight »

Jxl180 wrote: post #96
mindslight wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just pirate TurboTax. Torrent it, set up a fresh windows VM with Internet access via VPN, install/update turbotax, crack it to get the state version, make sure it's got live versions of all the forms you need, disconnect Internet access (never to be reconnected), copy previous year's data files to VM, do taxes, print out and file by mail, copy data files off to long term storage, save VM image in case you need to rev…

Or just use CashApp Tax. Your procedure makes it sound like Turbo Tax is the only game in town. Turbo Tax isn’t worth any of the effort you mentioned.

TurboTax is one of the few pieces of tax software meant for offline use, thus letting you keep your personal information from entering the permanent records of surveillance valley.

Just quickly looking at CashApp Tax, it appears it is an Android app that likely will want network access to function. If that meets your requirements, good for you. But it doesn't meet mine. I'd also rather use the same software year to year so that information is carried forward, rather than being subject to whichever way the startup winds blow.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#112

Post by washadjeffmad »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #93
mywittyname wrote: post #77

I found out from a friend that she paid $600 to have her taxes done because (presumably) she falls for the dark patterns that TurboTax uses. She's a low paid service worker whose tax return can probably be done for free. And it is a sizable portion of her income because of things like Earned income tax credits, child tax credits, etc. Fuck these companies.

Realistically, how would you do your tax return for free? Keep in mind that every service worker is terrified of an audit. The cost is much higher when you don’t have resources. EDIT: I think I didn't phrase this very well. My point was that the average service worker is trained to be terrified of the IRS. These people are already usually paying hefty fines because they missed their returns in prior years. That's why…

1090ez, or any of a dozen free-file options? State returns are cheap if not free almost everywhere.

The vast majority of the people who qualify for free tax filing have nothing to audit. The government makes enough money off their deductions, not to mention what they generate having to spend >50% of their income to stay afloat, to overlook a few unreported tips or sneaker sales.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#113

Post by [deleted] »

nickff wrote: post #101
Ajedi32 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> paying taxes being hard is good because it reminds you how much money you give the government Wouldn't it be the opposite? Having a complicated tax system makes it harder to find out how much you're paying. If things were simpler it would be much more apparent.

As a counter-example, sales taxes (and VATs) are very simple, yet almost nobody knows how much they’re paying.

[deleted]

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#114

Post by cmelbye »

bushbaba wrote: post #65
notch656a wrote: post #45

The fact that our government doesn't have the collective intelligence to just mail the tax bill using the information it already knows, with the option for the recipient to submit corrections/deductions, is a testament to the utter failure of governance in the US. Fortunately having an ineffective government can often be a feature instead of a bug.

Idk. I think the IRS gets the better end of the stick here. They have you tell them how much you owe. If you report more than they knew about great they made money. If you tell them less than they knew about, then they'll audit you assuming the difference is large enough (and there being a high likelihood of winning)

If you are audited by the IRS and they find that you overpaid, they will issue a refund. It's not a one-way street.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#115

Post by pkulak »

mynameisash wrote: post #14
markc wrote: post #3

I was 80% done with my taxes this year when TT suddenly demanded an additional $119 to list deductible expenses on income. That’s on top of $140 to file Federal plus 1 state. I’ve been using TT for 20 years. Never again.

I'm not confident in my ability to get my taxes right (mostly due to my wife and I having owned small businesses plus my day job's stock awards and ESPP), so I've paid a local CPA to do our taxes for years now. He always did an incredible job, was happy to answer my questions for me (tax-related or not), helped us refi our house at an amazing price, and so on. His fees were something on the order of $400 or maybe eve…

I could probably do my taxes with a 1040-EZ most years, but I still pay a local CPA $300 to do it for me. I'm just happier without $300 but with taxes done.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#116

Post by Ajedi32 »

wongarsu wrote: post #109
nickff wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counter-example, sales taxes (and VATs) are very simple, yet almost nobody knows how much they’re paying.

In Europe VAT is a line item on every invoice. And apparently in the US you have to do some mental gymnastics to manually add sales tax to the listed price to figure out how much to pay in the first place. Of course most people have no idea how much VAT they pay for Amazon purchases in a year, but that's mostly a product of them not knowing how much they spend on Amazon in a year. If they know the latter, the former…

> apparently in the US you have to do some mental gymnastics to manually add sales tax to the listed price to figure out how much to pay in the first place

FWIW, usually in the US it's just a line item on the receipt or checkout screen.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#117

Post by pkulak »

mywittyname wrote: post #91
AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #28

Not just TurboTax, H&R Block does this shit as well. "File your taxes free! Oh, you have to file an HSA contribution? Sorry, you'll have to buy H&R Block DELUXE ($79.99) to do that!" Kinda feels like blackmail, really. If I don't file my HSA contribution I'm technically committing fraud, right?

> If I don't file my HSA contribution I'm technically committing fraud, right? The IRS will send you a corrected tax return, you sign it and mail them a check and you'll hear nothing from them again. Maybe you didn't get the form, or didn't understand the software, etc, etc. There are lots of honest ways to screw up your taxes. The IRS isn't going to assume fraud unless you refuse to pay them when they point it out.…

I wonder if this is a backdoor into having the IRS mail you your completed form to sign and send back, like many other countries do. Just file a 1040-EZ every year with only your personal details and everything else zeroed out, and then look over what comes back in 6 months. :D

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#118

Post by Ajedi32 »

arebop wrote: post #110
Ajedi32 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> paying taxes being hard is good because it reminds you how much money you give the government Wouldn't it be the opposite? Having a complicated tax system makes it harder to find out how much you're paying. If things were simpler it would be much more apparent.

The exact amount doesn't matter for this, all that matters is that you vote against taxes. It is sufficient that you suspect you may owe some amount and realize that you are required to figure it out. If it's hard to figure out, that serves the purpose of those who want you to associate negative emotions with taxes so that you'll vote against taxes.

That sounds like an incentive to vote against complexity, not against taxes. Paying a larger amount doesn't make the calculation any harder to figure out, nor does paying a lesser amount make it easier.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#119

Post by paulmd »

techsupporter wrote: post #63
sofixa wrote: post #61

As i mentioned on another thread[1], that's one of those American things that really don't make any sense after spending more than a few seconds about it. There is no legitimate excuse for things to be this bad. The best I've heard is that paying taxes being hard is good because it reminds you how much money you give the government, so you are more attentive how it's spent, but it doesn't really make sense either. ht…

> The best I've heard is that paying taxes being hard is good because it reminds you how much money you give the government, so you are more attentive how it's spent The argument I've heard is that so righteous indignation over the "staggeringly high" taxes "stolen from the hardworking American people" or whatever. This is one of the same arguments as to why sales taxes shouldn't be included in the shelf price of an…

> The argument I've heard is that ...

> Except it doesn't work. People can be mad about taxes regardless of whether they're easy or hard to file.

"that can't possibly be a fair representation of that ideologue's position, there's huge gaps in the logic!"

look, positions way out on the fringes don't have to make coherent sense to the rest of us. PETA runs kill-shelters that euthanize millions of animals every year, sometimes multiples of other kill shelters. It makes sense to them, they have their own logic why that's good.

Making Americans hate every aspect of taxes - the amount, having to spend a couple quality hours with a tax program every year, getting sales tax rolled on top of advertised prices, everything - is the goal here. Just make taxes suck so that people hate them. Because then people will oppose taxation.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#120

Post by tomrod »

notch656a wrote: post #45

The fact that our government doesn't have the collective intelligence to just mail the tax bill using the information it already knows, with the option for the recipient to submit corrections/deductions, is a testament to the utter failure of governance in the US. Fortunately having an ineffective government can often be a feature instead of a bug.

> Fortunately having an ineffective government can often be a feature instead of a bug.

Not in a free society. An ineffective government is a conspicuous drain.

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