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Kaspersky is declared a US national security threat and is banned by the FCC

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Re: Kaspersky is declared a US national security threat and is banned by the FCC

#271

Post by guelo »

tomc1985 wrote: post #82
Maursault wrote: post #54

Ok, let's cut the crap. Is Kaspersky a dirtbag or not? I suspect not, but it is an unfortunate accident he was born in and runs his company from Russia, the government of which is a dirtbag, so, correct me if I am wrong, Kaspersky must be a dirtbag by association, but especially for discovering Stuxnet. Believable, but I think the real reasons Kaspersky is persona non grata is due to having discovered Stuxnet, and Ka…

When was Kasepersky ever considered a dirtbag? That company has written a lot of technically in-depth security reports over various threats for a long time. AFAIK it's a (relatively) honest business, though sadly the target of American russophobia

Was it America-phobia that made russia direct endless waves of cyber-attacks at us?

Re: Kaspersky is declared a US national security threat and is banned by the FCC

#272

Post by [deleted] »

lizardactivist wrote: post #268

I'm happy with what I consider to be the most competent AV suite available, made by a team of researchers that is second to none. If the U.S. accusations are ever proven to be true, I will reconsider. But I'm not holding my breath, since the U.S. has time and again been proven to be guilty themselves of the very thing they accuse others of, and refuse to provide any proof of.

[deleted]

Re: Kaspersky is declared a US national security threat and is banned by the FCC

#273

Post by google234123 »

lizardactivist wrote: post #268

I'm happy with what I consider to be the most competent AV suite available, made by a team of researchers that is second to none. If the U.S. accusations are ever proven to be true, I will reconsider. But I'm not holding my breath, since the U.S. has time and again been proven to be guilty themselves of the very thing they accuse others of, and refuse to provide any proof of.

What would you consider "proof"? I feel like it's not far fetched to assume the Russian Government can compel Kaspersky to do things. This same government is so insecure that they order assassinations of minor political opposition leaders

Re: Kaspersky is declared a US national security threat and is banned by the FCC

#274

Post by stjohnswarts »

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #228
stjohnswarts wrote: post #199

kaspersky should have completely left russia decades ago if they wanted to free their reputation from FSB taint.

Like all the US companies leaving the US in 2003? I only remember US companies trashing France around that time.

What? I guess enjoy your strawman? I never mentioned the US and this isn't a comparable situation. I'm talking about a business decision to not be associated with the KGB in countries where you do the vast majority of your business (EU and North America)

Re: Kaspersky is declared a US national security threat and is banned by the FCC

#275

Post by rat9988 »

jiscariot wrote: post #207
rat9988 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I put both russia and us at 10. Why would I rate it any better, given its past?

In the US the press can be openly antagonistic toward the government without reprisal beyond maybe having a WH press-core pass tossed. This provides a path for whistleblowers. Could the Russian press behave toward Putin as the US press toward Trump? If so, then you can have your 10s.

Snowden and assange have been used as example. Although, there are probably more people shut by the Russian government than by the us, by far. The thing is, the US secret services are secretive enough that non one can complain about, independently of the ability of the people to complain.

Re: Kaspersky is declared a US national security threat and is banned by the FCC

#276

Post by jmt_ »

slowmovintarget wrote: post #157
dartharva wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would really hope my organization doesn't start blanket banning excel macros for "security". It'll be a huge blow to productivity for several.

They'd just learn Python. They'd be fine.

You can't just "#learntocode" Excel macros away from industry.

Re: Kaspersky is declared a US national security threat and is banned by the FCC

#277

Post by sovietmoonbase »

NelsonMinar wrote: post #111
_8j50 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even american security companies have ties to the intelligence community. Kaspersky is no different. In most countries private sector pays more so state hackers work at places like Crowdstrike or Kaspersky after some time. Their relationship with the IC helps develop and share intelligence both ways.

There's an important difference: American security companies have ties to American intelligence. The concern here is Kaspersky has ties to Russian intelligence. If you're an American company or government agency and have to choose between the two the choice is pretty clear. I have a lot of respect for Kaspersky and hope they are still independent. But "ties to intelligence" can come in many forms: deliberate, coerced…

> If you're an American company or government agency and have to choose between the two the choice is pretty clear.

I suppose that entirely depends on one's threat-model. As an American, I have greater concerns of USG oppression than I do Russian. As the Russians have their ham-fisted means of exterting influence on a company, the US has their very own nasty ways of infiltration.

If you're interested in personal freedoms free of malicious government intrusion, they both suck.

Re: Kaspersky is declared a US national security threat and is banned by the FCC

#279

Post by syshum »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #235
alimov wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain how they are not equivalent. Just because two governments are on good terms or are in some kind of partnership does not guarantee that one or the other will not take actions that benefit only them. What am I missing here?

> explain how they are not equivalent Press. Political competition. Courts. Broadly, the rule of law. Nobody is perfect at any of these. But if the FSB wants a code change in Kaspersky, they're getting that code change. There is no independent press to report it. No opposition incentivized to call them out on it. No court in which they could lose.

hmm FISA, Gag orders, National Secrecy laws, etc all exist in US law, so tell me again how they are different?

Also, as an American Citizen, who has more power to put me the individual in a cage, the FSB or NSA?

Re: Kaspersky is declared a US national security threat and is banned by the FCC

#280

Post by JabavuAdams »

alimov wrote: post #247
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> explain how they are not equivalent Press. Political competition. Courts. Broadly, the rule of law. Nobody is perfect at any of these. But if the FSB wants a code change in Kaspersky, they're getting that code change. There is no independent press to report it. No opposition incentivized to call them out on it. No court in which they could lose.

While the methods may differ, is this not true of any governments intelligence agencies? Whether or not there is press/courts/rule of law. For press to report on an event they have to be aware of it, for courts to intervene they also have to be aware of it, for rule of law to matter then no part of a government can operate outside of it in any manner, so no extrajudicial actions either.

The point of press/courts/rule of law is that at least you have a chance. Without those, no chance. That matters.

The US is not some monolithic entity. It's almost weirdly schizophrenic. Yes, the government will e.g. use some super-shaky legal arguments to justify torture ahem "enhanced interrogation", but on the other hand Freedom of Information Act requests still get processed. Yes, the NSA will spy on US citizens, but even they feel the need to come up with some legalistic / procedural cover.

Even as the US's checks and balances are tested, and structural inequalities are examined, there is a broad and deep tradition of fighting the government and not going to jail like Navalny.

The traditions and norms of a country's populace, and its institutions really really matter, especially when their institutions are being tested.

Corruption is everywhere, but this is too simplistic a pattern-match.

EDIT> Knight-Ridder did some fantastic and courageous investigative journalism debunking the US casus belli in the run-up to the Iraq Invasion. It didn't stop the invasion, but they were recognized later. Can we imagine that happening in Russia?

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