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$625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

roninblockchain.substack.com

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Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#331

Post by bufferoverflow »

mabbo wrote: post #47

In a system run by people, the transaction could be reversed, traced, and the culprits eventually brought to justice. In a system run by algorithms, designed to avoid oversight by people (governments), there is no such powers. There's no reversal. There's no checking the name on the account the transfer was to. It's just gone. I do not understand why people who have legal intentions would want to be part of the crypt…

Not zero benefits. In your system run by people your money can be frozen or taken away without your consent. Recent example: peaceful protesters in Canada. There are also tons of examples, when scammers would reverse a good transaction after receiving the goods.

Another benefit of some blockchains: incredibly low transaction fees.

Another benefit: smart contracts.

I don't understand why you need to straight up lie.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#332

Post by basisword »

MereInterest wrote: post #301
basisword wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voluntarily transferring money is very different from having it stolen. The bank should protect your money while holding it from theft. They can't protect you from your own decisions on how to use your money.

They voluntarily accepted a contract wherein they would transfer money in exchange for receiving a bicycle. No bicycle was received, so this voluntary decision does not mean that the money transfer was voluntary. They did not accept a contract wherein they would transfer money in exchange for nothing. Since they did not accept this contract, this does not make the money transfer be voluntary. Being a victim of fraud…

That's got absolutely nothing to do with the bank. It's between you and the 'merchant'.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#333

Post by mattbrewsbytes »

oefrha wrote: post #149
mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like if they had a checking account with their bank credentials stored in ENV variables and someone got access to that server it would be the same outcome. The details of it being on a crypto-currency are interesting but when password/passphrase/private key security is poor it doesn't really matter the medium holding the money.

No, $625M transfer out of a single bank account would raise tons of eyebrows. No way it’s authorized by some env vars.

If the hackers are sophisticated, I would think they would start wiring in much smaller amounts and thru accounts so tracing is harder. Much like what they are going to have to do with the funds in that wallet.

If they setup some plausible 3rd party company the game studio could use and started transfers of $10k a pop it might be some time before anyone catches it.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#334

Post by gonehome »

trompetenaccoun wrote: post #148
gonehome wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the majority sided with the move (which is why Ethereum soldiers on and EC is basically useless). It's a good final social check on bad behavior. I think Vitalik as written about this (I'm pretty sure I read about it in one of his long form posts).

He's also written this, basically warning about something like the very situation now happening 2 months ago: reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/rwojtk/ama_we_are_the_efs_research_team_pt_7_07_january/hrngyk8 The DAO "hack" was a bit different from this, around 14% of all Ether were in that contract. There isn't going to be another rollback, especially not for something like the here discussed attack. Trusting third part…

Yeah, this is my take of things too at least as I understand it.

There is increased risk moving stuff off chain to third parties.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#335

Post by colinmhayes »

Dig1t wrote: post #20

So they now have this giant sum of money sitting in their wallet https://etherscan.io/address/0x098b716b8aaf21512996dc57eb061... what do they do next? How do criminals even use this money to do anything?

Others have talked about how you can use DeFi swappers, which absolutely will allow the hacker to convert a couple million per year into clean crypto if done meticulously, but the big problem is that they can't explain where the crypto came from. I don't think that's a death sentence, as you can still pay taxes and what not even if you can't explain where the coins came from, but if law enforcement catches onto you you'll have a problem. This is where NFTs come in. Since they're non fungible it's easy enough to buy a bunch for $1,000 and sell them to yourself for $100,000. This has the added bonus of pumping the artist you've invested in, so you'll be making money off the NFTs you legitimately sell on the market too.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#336

Post by kache_ »

mistrial9 wrote: post #173
kache_ wrote: post #118

Working as intended! God I love crypto, it's the fuckin wild west out there If you don't want the government in your business, you're going to have to dispense with all the advantages that big daddy affords you

yes, a deal between the parties, with all the risk and reward that goes with it.. really eye-opening to see all the comments wishing for an all-powerful referee to check every outcome and action in private affairs

I'm actually not wishing for a powerful referee - I'm _happy_ this hack happened. It means that cryptocurrency as an experiment succeeded in completely removing centralized control, and we're now closer to my libertarian utopia enabled through technology

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#337

Post by stjohnswarts »

whatshisface wrote: post #120
paxys wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Giving $650mm in USD to a random company is still infinitely safer than doing so with crypto. If a regulated bank claims they got hacked and lost that amount, there are a slew of federal and state laws and agencies in place to investigate it. With crypto, it could very well be in the wallet of the CEO or IT guy and no one would know.

Cryptocurrency theft is illegal and the US government does investigate and prosecute it. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/law/2022/feb/14/us-bitcoin-case-...

Sure but it doesn't mean I will get my "money" back like it would with a bank. There is no FDIC for crypto.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#338

Post by mring33621 »

While I'm usually quick to judge crypto hacks/losses as "play stupid games, win stupid prizes," I am impressed, based on a quick reading, with the tone and content of this "Community Alert". They sound professional in what's no doubt a very stressful situation. Good Luck, Ronin!

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#339

Post by gonehome »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #108
gonehome wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the majority sided with the move (which is why Ethereum soldiers on and EC is basically useless). It's a good final social check on bad behavior. I think Vitalik as written about this (I'm pretty sure I read about it in one of his long form posts).

>I think the majority sided with the move (which is why Ethereum soldiers on and EC is basically useless). Hahaha, no, the wealthy sided with the move. Of the 82,054,716 ETH in existence, only 4,542,416 voted, for a total voter turn out of 5.5% of the total supply on 16 July 2016; 3,964,516 ETH (87%) voted in favor, 1/4 of which came from a single address, and 577,899 ETH (13%) opposed the DAO fork. Vitalik and his f…

The vote is only one part of it.

What people continue to use and build on is the other.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#340

Post by JumpCrisscross »

MereInterest wrote: post #301
basisword wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voluntarily transferring money is very different from having it stolen. The bank should protect your money while holding it from theft. They can't protect you from your own decisions on how to use your money.

They voluntarily accepted a contract wherein they would transfer money in exchange for receiving a bicycle. No bicycle was received, so this voluntary decision does not mean that the money transfer was voluntary. They did not accept a contract wherein they would transfer money in exchange for nothing. Since they did not accept this contract, this does not make the money transfer be voluntary. Being a victim of fraud…

> this voluntary decision does not mean that the money transfer was voluntary

Voluntary or not is a red herring. The word this discussion is looking for is authorized.

The transfer was authorized by the account holder. They were defrauded. But when they made the transfer, then intended to do so. (The situation is murkier with credit card transactions, at least in America, because they chose to accept a role in dispute resolution.)

The $625mm drained out of Axie's account wasn't authorized by Sky Mavis. That's a different type of fraud than being ripped off.

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