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$625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

roninblockchain.substack.com

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Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#221

Post by ecf »

px43 wrote: post #197
mabbo wrote: post #47

In a system run by people, the transaction could be reversed, traced, and the culprits eventually brought to justice. In a system run by algorithms, designed to avoid oversight by people (governments), there is no such powers. There's no reversal. There's no checking the name on the account the transfer was to. It's just gone. I do not understand why people who have legal intentions would want to be part of the crypt…

> In a system run by people, the transaction could be reversed, traced, and the culprits eventually brought to justice. The answer to your question is encoded in the very first block of the very first blockchain. > The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Genesis_block Some people feel like they weren't being represented by the "justice" you're talking about, so…

Genesis block does absolutely nothing to explain what it’s actual purpose is. Just another hand-wavey answer by a crypto pyramid scheme peddler in response to genuine criticism.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#222

Post by Loughla »

jnwatson wrote: post #177
rootusrootus wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't recall last time seeing news on someone's bank account being hacked and drained, if anything its mostly family fraud. Anecdote time. My wife and I have a shared checking account that got hacked and drained. First her debit card got skimmed. Then the perp called USAA a half dozen times claiming to be her and asking for account credentials. Finally they got a helpful account rep to reset the password, disable…

This incident reinforces the rule never to use your debit card for credit card transactions.

Ever, never, never use your debit card where credit card can be used in its place.

The mechanisms for restoring the charge on your credit card are much stronger than on your debit card. And a credit card is a FUTURE charge, so you have time to fix the problem. Whereas a debit card is your CURRENT money, so it's just gone unless you get it back.

I do not understand why people use debit cards linked to their actual bank account out in the world. Paying bills securely through the utility is the only thing we use that for.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#223

Post by mypalmike »

rinze wrote: post #74
dpiers wrote: post #31

I'm out of the loop and trying to understand - people lent over half a billion dollars of their 'real' fake money (ETH) to a game studio so they could transact on the studio's sidechain because gas fees are prohibitively expensive on ETH, and then the game studio got hacked and lost it all? How was this ever going to end any other way? Imagine how preposterous the idea of storing $650mm in USD in a random game studio…

> Imagine how preposterous the idea of storing $650mm in USD in a random game studio's checking account would be. But it's decentralized. (Do the same hand movement as if saying "It's got electrolytes")

It's got Decentralytes!

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#224

Post by glitcher »

unmole wrote: post #95
rinze wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine how preposterous the idea of storing $650mm in USD in a random game studio's checking account would be. But it's decentralized. (Do the same hand movement as if saying "It's got electrolytes")

> Do the same hand movement as if saying "It's got electrolytes" I'm stealing this.

Just in case you're not familiar with the reference, it's from the movie Idiocracy.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#225

Post by Barrera »

This is the kind of pain that comes from trusting scammers and nincompoops about unworkable blockchain "scalability" fixes.

Here's the sequence. Those dumb enough to ignore it are doomed to repeat the pattern. I'm probably getting some details wrong in this Rube Goldberg scheme, so feel free to correct.

1. Citing "Ethereum network congestion," Axie Infinity announces an ethereum side chain, Ronin.[1]

2. Ronin was a centralized server (therefore fast and cheap) authorized to make Ethereum Mainnet transactions. The server was a hot wallet in other words.

3. The Ronin team tried to make it look like they were "decentralized" by splitting signing authority among 9 "validator nodes." (the article)

4. An attacker obtained 5 of 9 keys, which is the signing threshold.

5. With the required threshold of keys, the attacker signed the transitions moving assets off the Ronin servers.

None of this is new. The Bitcoin "block size war" was fought over this very point. Unworkable scaling schemes are going to end in disaster with no fallback, and no recourse for those who lose money. You end up with nothing, and will be sad.

And it's sad that the same lessons keep getting replayed over and over. It's really simple. Can your "blockchain" be validated with regular hardware? Does it use a secure consensus algorithm? Is there a secure side channel through which low-value transactions can flow? If not, you're going to have a bad time when the shenanigans start happening.

Now, is that side channel effectively a single server? Handling hundreds of millions of dollars of value? Have they rolled their own crypto? If yes to any of these, get out and stay out.

[1] https://medium.com/axie-infinity/introducing-ronin-axie-infi...

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#226

Post by vmception »

erdeszt wrote: post #166

> We are working directly with various government agencies to ensure the criminals get brought to justice. It's amusing to see these kind of statements from the decentralized no goverment/no authorities crowd. To quote RKL: Well it's anarchy, fuck the cops Of course, how else, through peace. But when the looters come to kick your ass I bet you cry "Police!"

> It's amusing to see these kind of statements from the decentralized no goverment/no authorities crowd

I see this meme and I don't get it

Why do you think this studio was a no government no authorities crowd?

I havent seen anything from Axie or its founders that suggested that, my assumption is that you see one word or one piece of technology that overlaps with the aspirations of completely different people that are anarchists, whats your assumption?

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#227

Post by Miner49er »

gen220 wrote: post #69

Question for the legal-minded folk here. Is this "theft" illegal in the criminal sense? It's exploiting an unintended hole in software, but it's technically following the smart contract faithfully, albeit against the better intentions of its author(s). Has a smart contract case like this been litigated before? It brings to mind comparable things that have happened in the financial services world, where one party insi…

This isn't a case where there was a flaw in a smart contract. This is a case where they straight up hacked servers and stole keys from them.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#228

Post by IE6 »

bogota wrote: post #153

Quoted post unavailable.

Anecdotally, I see this response to criticism of crypt pretty often: that we just don't understand. If you wanted to help a non-believer understand where would you point them? Not interested in being red-pilled into s**-coins but rather understand the benefits better. All of the sources I frequent are quite critical of the actual benefits (if any) of crypto.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#229

Post by mistrial9 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #192
mistrial9 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, a deal between the parties, with all the risk and reward that goes with it.. really eye-opening to see all the comments wishing for an all-powerful referee to check every outcome and action in private affairs

> eye-opening to see all the comments wishing for an all-powerful referee to check every outcome and action in private affairs News flash: this is a part of why we have banking and securities regulations. Because when the people clamouring for an out lose money, 90% of them turn it into everyone else’s problem. (This is true in traditional finance. It’s true in crypto. It’s true when the three-year old screams about…

I have St Louis Federal Reserve reports right here on my desk showing the ballooning USD money supply. "News Flash" means the person you are talking at, has never heard of this.. so News Flash elsewhere

This article has nothing to do with "Tether" .. a soapbox somewhere is lonely

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#230

Post by MereInterest »

whatshisface wrote: post #120
paxys wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Giving $650mm in USD to a random company is still infinitely safer than doing so with crypto. If a regulated bank claims they got hacked and lost that amount, there are a slew of federal and state laws and agencies in place to investigate it. With crypto, it could very well be in the wallet of the CEO or IT guy and no one would know.

Cryptocurrency theft is illegal and the US government does investigate and prosecute it. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/law/2022/feb/14/us-bitcoin-case-...

Sounds like a non-sequitur. Theft of cryptocurrency being illegal does not mean that it is safe, and doesn't offer any evidence at all against the parent's post that it is "safer" to use banking systems than to use blockchain.
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