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$625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

roninblockchain.substack.com

191–200 of 761 posts

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#191
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one in crypto typically wants to acknowledge this, but this is the clear and robust answer. Your keys your coins is obviously a situation rife for unreconcilable fraud, and is not a functional solution for anyone who might - ya know, want to spend these things as a currency.

I disagree. It's definitely a trade-off, and there are downsides to it (this security breach being a good example), but there are also advantages. With normal ACH and credit card transactions, the payment never really settles, and can be reverted due to fraud for months. That means I have to slurp up lots of data (privacy?) about my users in order to increase my confidence that they won't try to scam me. And even wit…

What savings?

The savings associated with transactions fees (reasonable for very large spends - utterly ridiculous for small amounts, even today after the major drops, at more than 1.7 USD/tx)?

The savings associated with double spend fraud that occurs if you don't delay the transaction for 3 to 6 blocks even though you say it's final (hint - that's not true, and waiting is a large downside for prompt processing at a point of sale)

The savings associated with being literally dragged into court because it turns out that fraud is still a thing, and the legal system still matters, and despite you saying that the transaction has settled - the courts can and WILL disagree?

I just don't see it. I see a very nice way to send money to folks who are working dark markets and understand escrow (which re-introduces the risk that your transaction isn't actually settled), and a really shitty transaction method for basically everything else.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#192
post #118

Working as intended! God I love crypto, it's the fuckin wild west out there If you don't want the government in your business, you're going to have to dispense with all the advantages that big daddy affords you

yes, a deal between the parties, with all the risk and reward that goes with it.. really eye-opening to see all the comments wishing for an all-powerful referee to check every outcome and action in private affairs

> eye-opening to see all the comments wishing for an all-powerful referee to check every outcome and action in private affairs

News flash: this is a part of why we have banking and securities regulations. Because when the people clamouring for an out lose money, 90% of them turn it into everyone else’s problem. (This is true in traditional finance. It’s true in crypto. It’s true when the three-year old screams about not being allowed the hot sauce and then screams when they taste it.)

$625mm from Axie Infinity is tolerable to the system. But when Tether busts, do you really think it won’t become our elected governments’ problem?

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#193
post #47

In a system run by people, the transaction could be reversed, traced, and the culprits eventually brought to justice. In a system run by algorithms, designed to avoid oversight by people (governments), there is no such powers. There's no reversal. There's no checking the name on the account the transfer was to. It's just gone. I do not understand why people who have legal intentions would want to be part of the crypt…

I think this is where insurance companies generally pop up as a solution. I.e. the same solution as with regular bank accounts. Layering humans on top of algorithms makes sense.

We already have SWIFT and networks layered under humans in the fiat system, so now we're just pushing more complex algorithms. In the case of block chains, I'd say the concept of asymmetric cryptography is an improvement over mutual trust in secure backoffice communication channels.

I'm not into crypto (still thinking it's a solution waiting for a problem), but arguing that banks can do reversals isn't fair. Someone moving fiat quickly between banks will make it hard to reverse as well. I can't imagine a bank is going to just say "I guess they stole it from you, transferred it to us, but then withdrew from us. Let me go ahead and reimburse you anyway." That smells like a insurance case, no matter the underlying algorithms.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if it was drained from a bank account, you have recourses to get it back.

Not true in the EU, we got scammed into making a bank transfer from Germany to Belgium for a bicycle that never arrived. We contacted the police and bank with all the details, and had to pay our bank about 40 euros to ask the scammer if they would refund the money, they said no and that was it. EU banking laws protected them. On the plus side the website appears to be gone now.

That's because you didn't use an escrow service between your account and the seller. If you did, the escrow service would provide some measure of legally-supported reversibility.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#197
post #47

In a system run by people, the transaction could be reversed, traced, and the culprits eventually brought to justice. In a system run by algorithms, designed to avoid oversight by people (governments), there is no such powers. There's no reversal. There's no checking the name on the account the transfer was to. It's just gone. I do not understand why people who have legal intentions would want to be part of the crypt…

> In a system run by people, the transaction could be reversed, traced, and the culprits eventually brought to justice.

The answer to your question is encoded in the very first block of the very first blockchain.

> The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Genesis_block

Some people feel like they weren't being represented by the "justice" you're talking about, so they built their own thing where all the rules are publicly viewable, and consensus is run by the community. It seemed like a weird idea at the time, but the idea got popular, and people who like this new system have moved about two trillion dollars of global wealth into it.

If you like the old way money was managed, by big institutions doing everything they could to extract wealth from the general public with no legal repercussions, then the good news is that the old system still exists. There are just some other options now too.

Also, the idea that all cryptocurrencies are some laissez-faire Randian wet dream is simply not true. An extremely diverse array of crypto governance mechanisms are being experimented with. Many run by humans, all with their own interpretations of "justice", which you can read up on and participate in at will. Governance proposals reclaim funds judged to be unfairly allocated all the time. I doubt that will happen here, because Ethereum governance is generally very harsh on people who suck at testing code, but every person who lost money here knew exactly what they were getting in to when they chose to participate.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a legal system available, and banks that have to rigorously comply with that system.

This is true about cryptocurrency as well.

Where will Federal Marshals deliver the summons to the owner of wallet address 0x8723aa67f823dbe785dc923 ?

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if it was drained from a bank account, you have recourses to get it back.

Not true in the EU, we got scammed into making a bank transfer from Germany to Belgium for a bicycle that never arrived. We contacted the police and bank with all the details, and had to pay our bank about 40 euros to ask the scammer if they would refund the money, they said no and that was it. EU banking laws protected them. On the plus side the website appears to be gone now.

€40 is not the same thing. If you got scammed out of €650 million, you would have gotten better attention. That's the point being made here.
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