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Rare genital defects seen in sons of men taking major diabetes drug

science.org

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Re: Rare genital defects seen in sons of men taking major diabetes drug

#121

Post by golem14 »

pxeger1 wrote: post #112
golem14 wrote: post #75

I don't get why this is called rare in the article. It's not called that in the actual study, so the article seems to do some editorializing: https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M21-4389 Looks like of the kids taken from dads taking metformin, .9% had a genital defect, which seems pretty high to me (defect in control is 0.24%). Granted, not as high as Thalidomide, but still, 9 in 1000 are not great odds.

I think it means the genital defect is normally rare, but is much more common in these kids?

Even .24% isn't that rare.

From NIH.gov:

"In the United States, a rare disease is defined as a condition that affects fewer than 200,000 people in the US."

Re: Rare genital defects seen in sons of men taking major diabetes drug

#122

Post by carlmr »

darawk wrote: post #117
lippel82 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the artcile: "The numbers were small — 13 metformin-exposed boys were born with genital defects. But after the researchers adjusted for factors including parental ages and maternal smoking status, they found a 3.39-fold rise in the odds of a genital defect. “The rate per se was surprisingly high,” Wensink says."

Adjusting for confounders on an n of 13 is statistically ridiculous.

It's not n=13 it's 13 with genetic defects.

Also not adjusting for confounders is statistically ridiculous. As well as n=13 studies.

Re: Rare genital defects seen in sons of men taking major diabetes drug

#123

Post by imtringued »

belorn wrote: post #107
mensetmanusman wrote: post #28

It’s sad seeing the crazy downstream multigenerational damage that massive sugar consumption is causing as obesity rates reach 50%. Good luck future humanity.

From what I recall reading about epigenetics, diabetes is caused by a too fast change in diet towards high calorie. After several generations the metabolism thriftiness goes down if the diet level remain the same, and thus diabetes rates will go down. Same concept happens in reverse when there is periods of famine.

Type 1 diabetes is an auto immune disease that destroys your pancreas.

Type 2 diabetes is an acquired and reversible disease that follows insulin resistance and it is caused by excessive amounts of glucose in your blood, which forces your pancreas to release an ever increasing amount of insulin which then is absorbed by fat cells until they hit insulin resistance, then it fills up muscle cells including your heart until they hit insulin resistance until the only place left for the glucose is inside your organs.

The easiest way to reverse diabetes or avoid heart surgery is to get a live glucose monitor and then do a ketogenic diet. It's non invasive and if done correctly is more effective than any surgery can ever hope to be.

Re: Rare genital defects seen in sons of men taking major diabetes drug

#124

Post by imtringued »

adewinter wrote: post #60
ecf wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s an extremely sad situation and will guarantee every single healthcare system eventually breaks down.

You're saying that it's a guarantee that every single healthcare system (in the world?) will break down because of _sugar consumption_? Seriously?

It is very close to the truth unfortunately. Maybe it won't break down but the vast majority of health care spending is there to undo the effects of a bad diet more than anything else.

Re: Rare genital defects seen in sons of men taking major diabetes drug

#125

Post by [deleted] »

Gatsky wrote: post #11

> In the United States, prescriptions to 18- to 49-year-olds with type 2 diabetes grew from fewer than 2200 in 2000 to 768,000 in 2015. What the hell… that has to be a mistake? What is going on? Can poor lifestyle really cause this massive increase in young people with diabetes??

[deleted]

Re: Rare genital defects seen in sons of men taking major diabetes drug

#126

Post by imtringued »

ceeplusplus wrote: post #29
giantg2 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, if they aren't suggesting dietary and exercise based solutions first, that's a huge red flag. Find a new doctor.

Prescriptions of diet and exercise are ineffective because many obese / type 2 diabetic people can't exercise self-control. That's why they're obese in the first place. It's way easier to take a pill than cut to 1500 calories a day for 2 years.

That's why you give them a continuous glucose monitor.

Re: Rare genital defects seen in sons of men taking major diabetes drug

#127

Post by OJFord »

alwillis wrote: post #74
idorosen wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People didn’t have McDonalds and cars ages ago. Barn-raising, (manual) farming, and hunting are hard energy-intensive work. Our calorie output required to survive dropped while the calorie inputs available cheaply dramatically increased. That is all part of “overcome metabolic efficiency.” :-)

It's easy to demonize fast-food but that's not even the worst of it. High-fructose corn syrup has been added to so many foods that didn't have it 10-20 years ago. The second or third ingredient on a bottle of ketchup, for example, is high-fructose corn syrup. You can get ketchup that doesn't have high-fructose corn syrup added to it; often it's a natural or organic brand that often costs more than the regular brand.…

> It's easy to demonize fast-food but that's not even the worst of it. High-fructose corn syrup has been added to so many foods that didn't have it 10-20 years ago.

We should just count ready-meals etc. as 'fast-food' too, no good reason that it implicitly refers to 'restaurants' only really.

> The second or third ingredient on a bottle of ketchup, for example, is high-fructose corn syrup.

Interesting, that didn't sound right to me (but it has been a long time since I've had it) - found this: https://www.truthorfiction.com/heinz-ketchup-ingredients-u-s... (tldr just sugar in the UK)

Re: Rare genital defects seen in sons of men taking major diabetes drug

#128

Post by imtringued »

kiba wrote: post #43
idorosen wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a harmful stereotype to label obese people as lacking willpower as you have done. Many obese people don’t have the resources (time, money) or tools (nutrition understanding) to improve their situation. Many have metabolic or familial history of obesity which has both physical and psychological (normalization) impact on their ability to control their weight. The former can be helped with diet and/or medication,…

People weren't obese ages ago, and I am sure that's not because of better nutritional education. It's a multifactorial problem.

Nutritional science got better at making people fat.

Re: Rare genital defects seen in sons of men taking major diabetes drug

#129

Post by imtringued »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #80
idorosen wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a harmful stereotype to label obese people as lacking willpower as you have done. Many obese people don’t have the resources (time, money) or tools (nutrition understanding) to improve their situation. Many have metabolic or familial history of obesity which has both physical and psychological (normalization) impact on their ability to control their weight. The former can be helped with diet and/or medication,…

I would say it’s much more harmful to rationalize obesity as something that afflicts people according to their circumstances, rather than what it actually is, a direct outcome of a person’s intentional choices. It’s also quite harmful to dramatize the solutions out to be something unattainable to many people. They are attainable to all people. The healthiest diet I’ve ever eaten was also the cheapest diet I’ve ever e…

>a direct outcome of a person’s intentional choices.

You mean like a politician promoting obesity inducing foods?

If it is really about individuals then obesity shouldn't be going up in African nations that quickly.

Re: Rare genital defects seen in sons of men taking major diabetes drug

#130

Post by imtringued »

fsckboy wrote: post #39
brenainn wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my scariest adulthood realizations is that doctors are like everybody else; fallible. And that being certified means you're good at studying, but doesn't always mean you're good at what you've studied. Not trying to discredit medical professionals or the amount of work they put in. I'm sure the majority are intelligent, conscientious and good at their jobs.

> Not trying to discredit medical professionals... I'm sure the majority are ... good at their jobs I'm sure half of them are below average

Below average compared to the patient? The problem is that it's true way too often.
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