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Maybe you should do less 'work'

johnwhiles.com

351–360 of 431 posts

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#351

There was a time during the first shut down when my company decided to reduce peoples hours and also reduce their salaries instead of laying off more employees. I end up working 20 hours a week (instead of my normal 35) with a reduced salary (and I was even able to collect partial California unemployment benefits for the remainder of the reduced hours under a special program called Workshare). Honestly it was amazing…

> made me really want to find a job that was less pay but also that low in hours This was a very large factor in why I quit - old job wouldn't let me cut back hours, even at reduced pay, even framing it as "leave without pay", so I had no choice but to quit to get my time back, and I had enough money. As it is, I'm content staying in that "learning and broadening" mode, even though I'm 20-ish years in on my career. I…

> old job wouldn't let me cut back hours, even at reduced pay, even framing it as "leave without pay",

I was curious what your role was, at what the incentives might have been for your old job to refuse this.

In your about page I see:

> Previously a programmer in the DoD world

speculation: were you working for a contractor that needed to bill your time out by the hour to the government? So if you weren't working maximum billable hours, they weren't making maximum profit margin on your hours, compared to someone else who would?

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#352
I really resonate with this post; I don't want to say I there's something I "struggle" with but I do feel the need to be able to balance my time a bit more.

I'm often a very productive member of my team, I love challenges, and I love digging into things and coming out the other side and feeling accomplished; My manager gets me onto things and asks when they might be done by, and I feel complied to deliver more in shorter time frames.

It's not so much that I feel "pressured" by expectations; but more I feel "involved" - my failures are the teams failures, my success is the team's success. and I want my team/product/company to succeed, so I spend my effort contributing to that.

However, this does swamp out time for my personal things that I want to do; I am wanting to learn lisp, and have some of my own personal projects that I want to play around with, in a multitude of technologies; I don't have spare time outside of work, so it's really on work time that I want to be able to experiment with these things. as the author puts it - "it doesn't offer any immediate value to me or the company, ... but I think generally made me fitter smarter and more productive"..

So for me, the balancing act, is to assert time to reflect/recharge in other spheres of technology, while also feeling the communal duty of our team to get the company going.

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh my bad. Throw a penny at the employees face and it's no longer freeloading. This isn't freeloading. Maybe a better term is "fucking over". Employers fuck people over, they don't freeload off of them. My bad. >As for capitalism being unfair, that's basically the point of capitalism, in the essence that "unfair" means "not everyone is compensated the same." Why you're repeating something I stated is beyond me. I sai…

> Why you're repeating something I stated is beyond me. I said capitalism is unfair. You said that as a means of supporting your larger point which is that capitalism is flawed. I am arguing that unfairness (as I defined it) is the whole essence of capitalism, which is very different from saying it's an unwanted byproduct of it. We want unfairness. If you instead want fairness, there are other systems for that in use…

>You said that as a means of supporting your larger point which is that capitalism is flawed. I am arguing that unfairness (as I defined it) is the whole essence of capitalism, which is very different from saying it's an unwanted byproduct of it. We want unfairness.

Thank you for the clarification. No we don't want unfairness. Wealth inequality is universally a very bad thing. Nobody wants this, you'd have to be insane to want it. That is unless you're the one doing the fucking.

Let me make one thing absolutely clear. I never said I prefer another system. I just said the current system is flawed. Please don't tell me to move to another country.

Also you obviously don't understand capitalism. Adam Smith originally conceived of the invisible hand that would influence market forces to distribute wealth fairly. This was the intent, the outcome is clearly not the case. Wealth is distributed unfairly with people who contribute the most to GDP not getting the most wealth.

The people who get the most wealth are owners of capital, not the people who generate or increase capital. The idea of capitalism started with the idea that wealth was fairly distributed. Modern economics now is fully aware that this is not the case and that there are huge flaws within capitalism even though there is currently no known superior system.

>It's equally possible for employees to fuck over employers, we just tend not to do it (for good reasons).

So? The problem here is every employee under a capitalist system is getting fucked over. So if I'm getting fucked over then of course I owe the employer nothing beyond stated business obligations.

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not at all what the article was about! It was never stated that you should be late or take too much time in doing tasks… it was about using more wisely your time (if the sizing claimed the task needed 5 days to be done and you are done in 2 maybe you could have spent more time thinking about the design or if everything is ok try to using the extra time to generate value in other ways instead of rushing toward…

Who establishes that sizing? I’ve yet to see anyone who can accurately estimate their own tasks let alone someone who can estimate that for others. In agile, I think a great time for reflection is between sprints. Also, I’m super fast but I’ll instead take frequent small breaks in the middle of work (read hacker news, write up documentation etc). There are other times to reflect than between tasks.

Writing documentation is work, taking small breaks is normal, not cheating.

In the office coffee, smoke, chat breaks were the norm, now people feel the need to justify 5 minutes of YouTube.

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#355
Leverage, as a principle, is so important. I always try to keep the 80/20 rule in mind. But perhaps most simply put, if you're working harder and harder and not seeing results, then you're probably focusing on the wrong things. There's a natural up-and-down to projects where you'll feel like things are going great, then terrible, then ok... But then there's times where it doesn't matter how much effort you put in, that boulder just isn't gonna budge. It's vital to step back and figure out whether your efforts should be refocused. Otherwise, it's a recipe for burnout.

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#356
post #7

Personal experience has taught me that there is a MAXIMUM amount of COMP that you will receive as an employee, no matter how much hard work you put into your company. So basically what is happening, is that you are working hard for some achievements, that someone else is going to benefit off.

> Personal experience has taught me that there is a MAXIMUM amount of COMP that you will receive as an employee, no matter how much hard work you put into your company.

Sure, but putting more craft and care and study in your tasks benefits you a lot too.

e.g. I have spent two weeks on an airbnb-like image gallery, could've completed the task in four days, used the time to become black belt in images in the browser, which makes ME a considerably better and more prepared professional. The way I see it I'm getting paid for educating and specializing myself. AND it benefits my current employer and our customers.

Meanwhile my colleagues rush into the next task don't rip any of these benefits.

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#357
i've always believed: avoid doing work on computers, use computers to do work instead.

my father's generation called this: work smarter, not harder.

wise computer people call this: be lazy.

industrialization of software work runs counter to this, it's your real job to defeat it.

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#358
post #349

There was a time during the first shut down when my company decided to reduce peoples hours and also reduce their salaries instead of laying off more employees. I end up working 20 hours a week (instead of my normal 35) with a reduced salary (and I was even able to collect partial California unemployment benefits for the remainder of the reduced hours under a special program called Workshare). Honestly it was amazing…

Some companies have flexible work policies that give employees the option of switching to part time. My current employer (megacorp, not tech) has such a policy documented internally, not really widely advertised. I read about it, discussed it with manager, I framed it as "it doesn't make sense for me to work full time any more. I'm still open to doing part time. Can we switch to part time, per company policy?". Manag…

I appreciate that you acknowledge the negotiating power required to make that kind of a move.

That sounds like a great move for you, and I'm really curious about your experience. Do you find that you're more "out of the loop"? Naively, I would expect you to become a lot more of a satellite employee, less involved in any decisionmaking. How has that gone?

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why you're repeating something I stated is beyond me. I said capitalism is unfair. You said that as a means of supporting your larger point which is that capitalism is flawed. I am arguing that unfairness (as I defined it) is the whole essence of capitalism, which is very different from saying it's an unwanted byproduct of it. We want unfairness. If you instead want fairness, there are other systems for that in use…

>You said that as a means of supporting your larger point which is that capitalism is flawed. I am arguing that unfairness (as I defined it) is the whole essence of capitalism, which is very different from saying it's an unwanted byproduct of it. We want unfairness. Thank you for the clarification. No we don't want unfairness. Wealth inequality is universally a very bad thing. Nobody wants this, you'd have to be insa…

> Wealth inequality is universally a very bad thing.

This is a moral absolutist take. We clearly don't agree on "bad" vs. "good" because some of the best (from my perspective) things were/are done in capitalist countries, such as the creation of NASA, rollercoasters, the Internet, innovative surgeries, and life-saving medical treatments for chronic conditions.

> Wealth is distributed unfairly with people who contribute the most to GDP not getting the most wealth.

Measuring contributions is not a trivial task, even philosophically. How much does my CEO contribute versus the work of us workers? That isn't something that can be measured, so any conception of the answer to that is going to be a matter of opinion. So I'm going to say "[citation needed]" on that one, and arguably there's a "[philosophical justification needed]" as well.

> every employee under a capitalist system is getting fucked over

First, that definitely is not true, especially if you believe that a portion of people in the system are overpaid. But secondly, if you are getting "fucked over," you should leave and join a different company that does not fuck you over. If enough people do this, either the economy will grind to a halt (forcing companies to raise wages) or the wages will be raised without grinding the economy to a halt. There is absolutely nothing in capitalism that prohibits this. In fact, the prospect of higher wages means it is encouraged.

> The people who get the most wealth are owners of capital, not the people who generate or increase capital.

You are again stating this as though it's supposed to be taken as a given that it's bad. Acquiring capital and growing capital are two totally different roles and it's impossible to compare their true value to society. We need both, and it's not clear that acquiring capital (providing it) is less valuable.

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#360
post #54

Beyond those arguments, it's also important to remind that we should work between 20 or 30 hours per week, not more. It's about health, being able to rest, do leisure, physical activity, see friends, date, etc. There are things to learn about the antiwork mentality. Not saying everyone should quit their job, but still, it would be nice if everyone could be able to negotiate with their employees. I have often been cal…

> Those people will generate enough taxes and labor for lazy people like me, and it's okay. Feels odd to me to make a statement like this. Is it in jest? In my view everyone should pull the same minimum. Not have some people work more to offset other people working less.

Others will always excel or do more because they feel that's valuable, so though I agree with you, I don't think it could ever work that way.

Some people work harder because they want to see their team succeed, some people do it because it's a status game to them, some people do it because they've got nothing better to do.

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