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I hate what video games have become

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Re: I hate what video games have become

#541

Post by spiderice »

philipov wrote: post #416
spiderice wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also might be more. And with a game like Lol, where it is literally pay to win, I wouldn't be surprised if it were more.

There are plenty of pay-to-win games, but LoL is not one of them. LoL has cosmetics, and pay-to-progress, but there's nothing you can buy that will give you an advantage in-game over people who play for free. Unlocking new characters with RMT is not pay-to-win, because all the characters are obtainable for free without requiring unreasonable effort. You're not forced to get them from random lootboxes like Gacha games…

You and I clearly have a different definition of pay to win. If I start the game on a new account, and don't have access to the same champions as my enemy from game 1 unless I spend money, then the game is pay to win. Period. The fact that I could pay money, in that moment, to win, means the game is pay to win.

Edit: Further, here is an article[1] breaking down how long it would take to unlock all champions without paying money. 9.5 years playing 1 game/day. It's absurd to pretend that isn't "pay to win". By that definition, Clash of Clans isn't pay to win either, because technically you could grind the game for 100 years without paying for anything and get really far.

[1] https://www.dexerto.com/league-of-legends/lol-fan-works-out-...

Re: I hate what video games have become

#543

Post by Melatonic »

The thing I found funny about cosmetics is that often the players that are REALLY good (as in very top of the game) end up stripping off all cosmetics and going as bare as possible (or just using one single basic cosmetic). When you get to the point where you already own all the good stuff and have used it for so long theres a novelty in looking vanilla. And of course you could argue a competitive advantage in that people may think you are a much, much worse player than you really are.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#544

Post by setr »

philipov wrote: post #427
Strom wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to pay for champions, they are not unlocked for free.

You do not have to pay for champions, you can unlock them for free using easily-obtainable Blue Essence. Paying to unlock champions is pay-to-progress, because it gets you caught up to everyone else faster, but doesn't give you a competitive advantage.

You say progress, but it’s kind of both an endless treadmill and you’re weaker usually by lack of options;

When I used to play LoL, like 5-7 years ago, I was playing a rate of like 3-4 hours daily, which barely scraped by the amount of essence needed to buy the next releases champion, let alone the runes system they had introduced at the time (don’t know if it’s still around) which had a fairly dramatic impact on the early game especially for specific characters.

That is, while technically the game could be played purely on free tier and eliminate any competitive advantage… it requires a lot of effort to keep up. Not nearly as bad things like FarmVille used to pull, but definitely enough to say that ponying up cash is eventually needed.

And having more options available to you (both characters and runesets or whatever they do now) is definitely an advantage, and a significant one at that

Re: I hate what video games have become

#545

Post by Semaphor »

ajmurmann wrote: post #537
Semaphor wrote: post #90

I’m glad there is this whole parallel universe of amazing single player (or MP-optional) games with absolutely no dark patterns, loot boxes or any of the shit people who play MP games have to put up with. I buy a game, and unless I get the DLC(s)/Expanions pack(s), that’s all I’ll ever have to pay. Civilization V: Over 2000 hours. Pathfinder: Kingmaker/Wrath of the righteous: Over 1000 hours each. Stellaris [0]: Almo…

The same is true for most AAA single player games as well. God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, Zelda Breath of the Wild, Souls games. None of these have microtransactions. The milk only seems to sour once there is a significant multiplayer component. GT7 sticks out as a recent example where the presence of multiplayer negatively impacts single player as well.

I wouldn't know, I hate action games and I'm not sure there are other AAA games ;)

Re: I hate what video games have become

#546

Post by telchior »

AlexandrB wrote: post #341
telchior wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair criticism, but one that is only relevant in the first place because of freemium. Prior to that business model, there was no such thing as a company continuing to provide regular, ongoing support to a 7 year old game of the non-subscription variety. I mean, how or why would they? You release something; it makes 90% of its lifetime revenue in year 1; if you continue working on it for 6 more years, you're out of bu…

> Along come NFTs, with potential permanent ownership... but gamers despise that idea, too. Permanent ownership of what ? If the game servers shut down or you get banned[1] for some reason your permanent ownership is meaningless. Also how are NFTs different than the existing systems like the Steam marketplace in terms of functionality? [1] Oh yeah, NFTs require you to have an online account for the game. I would argu…

Thanks for the clarification. I haven't followed the NFT hype much but the one game startup founder I know who talks about it had ideas for permanent ownership in some kind of ... hand-waves metaverse.

Personally I view games as art that's closer to food than a painting: ephemeral, may disappear after being consumed.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#547

Post by originalvichy »

lajy wrote: post #493
originalvichy wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless there have been changes in the game, different cars have different hitboxes so technically in this circumstance you might be wrong. Not that there any absolutely amazing car for hitboxes, but there are differences and they affect gameplay.

I assume you're still talking about Rocket League? All models in that game fall under 1 of 6 hitbox types [1], each of which are attainable without purchase [1] https://support.rocketleague.com/hc/en-us/articles/360029832...

Gotcha. I didnt know they had a cap on the number of models.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#548

Post by 0des »

Melatonic wrote: post #543

The thing I found funny about cosmetics is that often the players that are REALLY good (as in very top of the game) end up stripping off all cosmetics and going as bare as possible (or just using one single basic cosmetic). When you get to the point where you already own all the good stuff and have used it for so long theres a novelty in looking vanilla. And of course you could argue a competitive advantage in that p…

This is also why some models dress and look the way they do. Looking at you, balenciaga.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#549

Post by duckfruit »

failrate wrote: post #428

There are so many new and dufferent games being created at all times, I defy you to even point in a general direction and say "this is what video games are". Coupled with that is the horrible viewpoint that the money for your game is now "wasted", which assumes that most everything we buy is kept, when in reality, most of what we buy is transient: food, energy, garments.

I agree. We live in a golden age of gaming. Steam and all the game stores have a practically unlimited catalog (granted there's a lot of shovelware, but still plenty to chew on). Triple A games with budgets that rival and even exceed tentpole Hollywood franchises. New art forms constantly furthering the boundaries of narrative driven entertainment. Hyper realistic graphics pushing the frontiers of CG and even AI research with DLSS and the like. Gaming can be entertainment, a social activity, a creative tool (There's Minecraft of course, but also check out some of the incredible stuff made in Dreams on the Playstation https://youtu.be/AXtNlgjPb80?t=288).

And on top of all that, there's also innovation in the underlying business models. F2P games that are morally dubious and depend on hapless whales that get addicted to your product and subsidize it for the rest of the playerbase? Sure! Single $60 or $70 purchase without DLCs? Contrary to the author's insinuation, there are plenty of games that still follow that model. Expansion packs! Monthly subscriptions! There's just no other kind of media that even comes close -- where else can you spend $50 and potentially get hundreds or even thousands of hours of entertainment?

Re: I hate what video games have become

#550

Post by sobkas »

paulmd wrote: post #419
qwery wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole 'preying on the vulnerable' thing kind of puts me off. But I want to respond to this: > The items that you buy have absolutely no impact on gameplay and are just visuals Cosmetic items are not just visual though. They are real elements in the game. Cosmetic items are interactive. They are unlockable, collectable, wearable items. Further, visuals do impact the gameplay. You could argue about the difference b…

> Monetisation strategies like microtransactions, loot boxes, etc. are also part of the game. However, the goal of such parts is not aligned with that of the others. The game is compromised by the introduction of the monetisation strategies. Yup, I think this gets lost in the "visual-only cosmetics are fine/gameplay-affecting is bad" position. The problem is that in most cases, even if the cosmetic is purely visual,…

> At a more basic level, the single-player RPG is essentially dead because it's the most difficult to introduce MTX mechanics into those genre of games. And sure you can point to Elden Ring but even then they are using "cooperative" or "inter-session" mechanics that fundamentally exist as a way to get an "always-online" server system into the picture as a platform for MTX. You've got forced Denuvo on everything. Etc etc.

Have you ever heard of thing called fashion souls? A lot of times I wear armour (pick and choose pieces) because it looks cool not because it have bigger numbers.

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