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Maybe you should do less 'work'

johnwhiles.com

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Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#71

Post by shock-value »

0des wrote: post #32
tnzk wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doing my tasks diligently and in a timely manner affords me more time to relax, review what I have created, and enjoy it rather than drag myself to the next task. This looks like what exactly the author says in the article to me

To a high performer the tone of this article is a shot across the bow.

You read it wrong then.

> affords me more time to relax, review what I have created, and enjoy it rather than drag myself to the next task

This is exactly what the author is promoting. A hypothetical so-called "worker bee" would indeed be moving on to the next task at the fastest possible clip.

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#72

Post by mrozbarry »

I work at a software consultancy, and here are my hot tips around this:

- Take breaks between tasks. Your flow should mostly allow 5-10 minute breaks often (like once an hour or so) without anything or anybody blowing up.

- It's healthy that your client (or bosses) will always want more work, especially if you and your team do good work.

- Always instill in your client (or bosses) that work will get done when it's done. They are paying you to know how long something _should_ take, and to identify obstacles that could make something take longer, as well as the time you need to plan/prepare to keep you and your team sane.

- Your best working state is when you're relaxed. People have told me they work best under pressure, and I really refuse this to ever be true. You can certainly work under pressure, and even work fast, but I honestly believe your best work is the work that you enjoy and care for, not just the work you spit out fast.

- You can have fun doing just about any task if it's not stressful. Sure, there are a lot boring tasks in software, like waiting for compiles, or doing slow-moving dev-ops work, but if there is a clear path with no major obstacles, it really won't be that bad.

The biggest thing for me is having me and my team take breaks often. It's a good time to reflect on the work that's been done, think about a problem, or just take your mind off a larger problem for a few minutes. Depending on the industry, your client, your boss, etc., your mileage is going to vary, but as a software consultant, it is your job to advise on what time you need to get something done right.

So I guess I agree with the article. Not that you shouldn't regularly give 100%, but you should always be buffered so in high stress, high stakes, you and your team have capacity to go above and beyond the usual, but your average work load isn't maxing you out all the time.

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#73

Post by scruple »

giantg2 wrote: post #44
pm90 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you need a vacation : )

I have a toddler - vacations don't really exist at this stage of life. Plus the past two years have seen me using most of that time for family medical issues. This year I'll be using about 1/4 of my time off for my wife to go on vacations.

Your story is similar to mine.

Expectations at work are unrealistic, bordering on complete fiction.

We have 3 young children and my wife is still on disability and recovering from childbirth 6 months ago.

A vacation would be great but it isn't happening anytime soon.

Vacations at this point in my life just means I work even harder than I do for my day job. Vacations are when the daycare is closed, which is actually more often than I can believe (especially contrasted against the exorbitant price of child care...).

It sounds bad but it isn't that bad, I've definitely had worse periods in my life and that was before marriage with children. I wouldn't do anything differently, except maybe finding a different job before kid number 3 came along...

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#74

Post by alexk307 »

LunaSea wrote: post #60
jokoon wrote: post #54

Beyond those arguments, it's also important to remind that we should work between 20 or 30 hours per week, not more. It's about health, being able to rest, do leisure, physical activity, see friends, date, etc. There are things to learn about the antiwork mentality. Not saying everyone should quit their job, but still, it would be nice if everyone could be able to negotiate with their employees. I have often been cal…

> Those people will generate enough taxes and labor for lazy people like me, and it's okay. Sorry, but it's definitely not ok.

Why not? Everyone has to be maximally productive at all times?

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#75

Post by lijogdfljk »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #63
lijogdfljk wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those people will generate enough taxes and labor for lazy people like me, and it's okay. Feels odd to me to make a statement like this. Is it in jest? In my view everyone should pull the same minimum. Not have some people work more to offset other people working less.

Do you think everyone pulling the same minimum will ever happen? I don't, and it might be important to come to terms with that concept... otherwise I imagine you'd harbor some malice towards people who don't.

> Do you think everyone pulling the same minimum will ever happen? I don't, and it might be important to come to terms with that concept...

Well i read the parent comment as if it was referring to a hypothetical "less work" society. With better work-life balance. Of which i agree with.

What i don't agree with, is balancing this society on the fact that some are required to work more than others. Ie just because some people are addicted, or even healthily-like to work more, that they would be required to work 40h/w where as perhaps the parent comment would only be required to work 20h/w.

"Required" in this context would be for society to stay afloat due to taxes or whatever hypothetical reason. It's pretty loose, i'm inferring a lot from the parent comment of "Those people will generate enough taxes and labor for lazy people like me, and it's okay".

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#76

Post by Spivak »

LunaSea wrote: post #60
jokoon wrote: post #54

Beyond those arguments, it's also important to remind that we should work between 20 or 30 hours per week, not more. It's about health, being able to rest, do leisure, physical activity, see friends, date, etc. There are things to learn about the antiwork mentality. Not saying everyone should quit their job, but still, it would be nice if everyone could be able to negotiate with their employees. I have often been cal…

> Those people will generate enough taxes and labor for lazy people like me, and it's okay. Sorry, but it's definitely not ok.

Eh, I think the point is that there are some who are so far gone into the "live to work" mentality that there's really no point in trying to convince them otherwise. The only option is radical acceptance and taking as a silver lining that they will probably produce higher than average output which benefits you ever so marginally.

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#77

Post by xyzzy21 »

This is quite correct. Never assume YOU KNOW what people expect of you WITHOUT EXPLICITLY ASKING for details.

For me, when I was a young buck, I assumed they wanted the perfection that I EXPECTED. Turns out 99% of the time, I was grossly overestimated what and how much others expected or wanted from my efforts. So I developed the habit of asking lots of questions about what would satisfy them (boss, customers, peers, employees, etc.) for just about any task, project, effort, etc. It also meant (often) that I had to work far less and with less stress.

NEVER ASSUME. Always ask what would be sufficient and then ONLY do what is sufficient. The advantage is they get what they want and you can get schedules, deliverables, etc. right and on-time which makes everyone happier than overdelivering and being late at the same time.

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#78

Post by Apocryphon »

0des wrote: post #5

Getting my task completed at my own pace makes me feel good. Often that is fast and on time. In my heart, when I touch the keyboard, I feel like a greyhound dog with a little Bob Ross afro - it can be a race, a competition, but it is also an expression of my art. This article makes me feel bad because in the authors world, people like me are relegated to worker bee monkies trying to please the bossman due to patholog…

> When did we become so not only complacent but also discouraging of any genuine effort?

Overcorrection for burnout and other consequences of poor WLB. And because WFH has distilled many white collar remote jobs to their essence shorn of the trappings of the office, causing people to reflect on what work really means.

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#79

Post by toomuchtodo »

giantg2 wrote: post #66
TameAntelope wrote: post #49

I agree with the content of the article, but I don’t agree with the premise that these things aren’t also “work”. Engineers tend to obsess over, “focused work” like it’s the only way to be productive, and anything that’s not “focused work” is wasted time. That is a surefire way to burn out. Instead, finding ways to “riff” on your job by doing work with longer time horizons of payoff keeps your job fun. It’s all “work…

Well, the bosses usually only care about work the helps produce value. They might like the fact that you know some new tech that they can use in their latest assignment, but they weren't giving you credit while you were learning it the year before just for fun.

Find better bosses and employers. They are out there.

Re: Maybe you should do less 'work'

#80

Post by Apocryphon »

shock-value wrote: post #71
0des wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To a high performer the tone of this article is a shot across the bow.

You read it wrong then. > affords me more time to relax, review what I have created, and enjoy it rather than drag myself to the next task This is exactly what the author is promoting. A hypothetical so-called "worker bee" would indeed be moving on to the next task at the fastest possible clip.

It also says

> You should try and spend your time in ways that will benefit you and your employer.

Which is hardly antagonizing their boss, or slacking.

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