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I hate what video games have become

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Re: I hate what video games have become

#41

Post by nstart »

arealaccount wrote: post #31

Just started playing fortnite after resisting cause free to play rules. Its a really fun game, and theres no buying competitive advantage. I bought a skin to support the devs, just like I did on Among Us. As a generally “always by the cart” type of person, I think I'm starting to come around to the “pay what you want” model.

There's definitely a tasteful way to do this model. Dota 2, Fortnite, and Brawlhalla are examples of good ways to do this. To me, it comes down to two things:

1. Should not be able to purchase a competitive advantage

2. Should be able to purchase the item you want.

Re the second point, if you want the rare items and that involves gambling random item opaque loot boxes, that's an abusive relationship. If it involves purchasing the item directly, or buying a box where you can see all the items inside of it, that's a respectful relationship. Purchasing the item directly is the most preferred.

Games that do this entire model badly involve Hearthstone and any number of mobile games made by Supercell.

Some people might balk at the idea of purchasing any further items, but personally, I don't see anything particularly wrong with allowing cosmetics to be purchased and applied as a model that enables people to have a great free experience.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#42

Post by hypertele-Xii »

pengaru wrote: post #15

There's a lot to dislike, but my gripes as a developer who occasionally dabbles in games are more along the lines of "this puzzle game prototype is interesting and may be worth polishing up and tossing on steam, but oh right, it won't even pay for itself unless I turn it into yet another gambling machine." Then I go back to writing system software.

What exactly makes you think as someone who "dabbles in games" to be entitled to profit?

AFAIK it costs $100 +30% to publish on Steam. It only takes 260 people to buy your game at 50 cents to break even. If your game can't sell 260 copies at 50 cents then it's just that, worthless.

Why not just release your game for free, for free? Does it have to be on Steam? Does it have to make money?

Re: I hate what video games have become

#43

Post by bccdee »

sidlls wrote: post #25

Video games are like this because people pay for it. It didn’t start like this. Back when packaged games (i.e. shrink-wrapped cd/dvd cases) were the way games were delivered we had “online” modes that generally cost a fixed amount (including $0) to access. Then someone would experiment with something like a power up or level up for some tiny cost, or a “bundle” of them, etc. and guess what: the market overwhelmingly…

Actually there's a strong power law going on with microtransactions. Most players don't spend any money at all on them; some spend a couple bucks on an item or two. The model becomes profitable because of the top 1% of spenders — "whales," in industry parlance — some of whom have deeply unhealthy relationships to the gambling mechanics and social pressures underlying microtransaction economies.

So it's not exactly true that the public are voting with their wallets here. It's a profitable business model, but the majority of people do not engage with it, and consumers as a whole would be better-off if it died out.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#44

Post by claaams »

josephg wrote: post #35
lofatdairy wrote: post #23

Honest question: I understand the gripes about lootboxes being toxic because gambling systems are generally manipulative, but I don't know how to respond to "Just don't buy them". They don't affect gameplay, they're really just there as whale bait, but if you're invested in the game you don't necessarily have to get invested in cosmetics. The only two games I play these days both happen to be gacha games, and actuall…

> They don't affect gameplay This opinion might vary by the person and the game. I was playing some free-to-play game the other day which was like you described - it had a store and some tokens, and a way to slowly gain the premium token as you played. But I found there to be something deeply gross about it which did impact my gameplay experience. I’m playing a game (rather than doing something else) because I want a…

The difference is that the game was competitive and the cosmetics had 0 impact on the game mechanics itself. Other games like you describe constantly remind you that you don't have enough credits to buy the thing, you're earning them just at a rate too slow to matter. You're always being nudged to think about the mtx system and it's a core aspect of the gameplay and it's exhausting.

For me it makes a game feel like a second job. I'm not wealthy so I'm trying to save and make something for myself but playing these games just feels like experience the same dread and fear i have in reality.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#45

Post by trinovantes »

silisili wrote: post #17

There are still a ton of solid games that aren't constantly asking for money. TLOU, Elden Ring, RDR2 to name three huge ones. I'm 50/50 on Ubisoft because their games are still great standalone, but do offer IAP that I just ignore. I'm OK with those offering freemium and such so long as it doesn't kill off the old model. I don't think it will.

The problem with Ubisoft's model is that it affects game balance. Before when there's a problem with a game, the developers will patch it for free. Now, solutions are sold as IAP. It's even worse when the problems are now intentional.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#46

Post by pengaru »

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #42
pengaru wrote: post #15

There's a lot to dislike, but my gripes as a developer who occasionally dabbles in games are more along the lines of "this puzzle game prototype is interesting and may be worth polishing up and tossing on steam, but oh right, it won't even pay for itself unless I turn it into yet another gambling machine." Then I go back to writing system software.

What exactly makes you think as someone who "dabbles in games" to be entitled to profit? AFAIK it costs $100 +30% to publish on Steam. It only takes 260 people to buy your game at 50 cents to break even. If your game can't sell 260 copies at 50 cents then it's just that, worthless. Why not just release your game for free, for free? Does it have to be on Steam? Does it have to make money?

> AFAIK it costs $100 +30% to publish on Steam. It only takes 260 people to buy your game at 50 cents to break even. If your game can't sell 260 copies at 50 cents then it's just that, worthless.

It doesn't take zero time to ship a bespoke finished game, your calculus is asinine.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#47

Post by exodust »

They raise an interesting point I've wondered about, in regards to movies:

> "Like you are watching Avengers End game in Netflix and they ask you if you wanna pay 5 dollars more to watch Captain America use his well known outfit instead of regular clothes?"

While that example is unlikely, we may in the future see paid narrative arcs. The base movie might be free, taking you to a certain point in story where you're presented a fork in road. One path is free with low budget action, the other paid and contains more action, more sex and big budget scenes!

Re: I hate what video games have become

#49

Post by exdsq »

Thankfully there are games like the Soulsbourne series! I found Japanese studios are the better ones nowadays for 'genuine' games based on a one-time sale. GTA V is releasing a $5.99 subscription service that basically lets you buy micro transactions at a discount.
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