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Melbourne hit-and-run blamed on Tesla Autopilot, could set legal precedent

drive.com.au

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Re: Melbourne hit-and-run blamed on Tesla Autopilot, could set legal precedent

#61

Post by onethought »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #41
barbs wrote: post #5

In Melbourne, quite often there are 4 lane roads (2 lanes in each direction) with tramlines in the inner two lanes going in each direction. At the tram stops, passengers need to walk across the outer lane to get to/from the sidewalk, so cars need to stop behind the tram even if they are in the outer lane and not directly behind the tram so that they can make way for passengers. Having moved here from Sydney a few yea…

Tesla autopilot isn’t available in Australia, so probably not. Also, isn’t autopilot just for controlled access highways, unless they were using a beta?

Autopilot and FSD (non beta) are both available in Australia. Autopilot is standard on all models.

Re: Melbourne hit-and-run blamed on Tesla Autopilot, could set legal precedent

#62

Post by jfoster »

onethought wrote: post #59
jfoster wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Melbourne doesn't generally have what Autopilot would consider "normal" roads, though. The incident involved someone getting off a tram, so the road would have looked something like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunswick_East,_Victoria#/medi... In the future, perhaps Teslas will handle this well, but you only need to watch a few videos of them encountering similar markings on YouTube to know that this type of…

Elon just posted even FSD beta doesn’t handle streetcars (trams?) in Canada very well. So it’s probably a big gap in their training set… I guess SF trolleys are quite different or mapped or something.

Yeah, it probably views them as a big truck or something. In any case, I would be really surprised if regular (non-FSD) Autopilot would be happy with the markings on a Melbourne street that has tram lines.

Re: Melbourne hit-and-run blamed on Tesla Autopilot, could set legal precedent

#63

Post by [deleted] »

clouddrover wrote: post #58
natch wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not about me, it’s more about overinterpreting statements. News flash: Elon can be wrong, has been wrong, will be wrong. This is not news, even to his fans. Taxi timeline was a prediction, not a promise. Elon. Can. Be. Wrong. Hardware is not software. The hardware working depends on software that is not done yet. Some hardware has been upgraded to be sure. The jury is still out on whether that old claim will pan…

> News flash: Elon can be wrong, has been wrong, will be wrong. So you agree: it's bullshit. > I doubt it will, but I think it was made in earnestness, not as “BS”. No, it's just bullshit. Musk's strategy is to keep telling bigger lies because there are always more suckers to fleece. His latest bullshit is the Tesla Bot.

[deleted]

Re: Melbourne hit-and-run blamed on Tesla Autopilot, could set legal precedent

#64

Post by onethought »

jfoster wrote: post #62
onethought wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon just posted even FSD beta doesn’t handle streetcars (trams?) in Canada very well. So it’s probably a big gap in their training set… I guess SF trolleys are quite different or mapped or something.

Yeah, it probably views them as a big truck or something. In any case, I would be really surprised if regular (non-FSD) Autopilot would be happy with the markings on a Melbourne street that has tram lines.

It’s hit and miss for sure. Sometimes it sees the track as the line, or the centre line or the yellow line. The car basically starts steering erratically as it adjusts to what it thinks is the centre.

No excuse to be using autopilot passed a stopped tram… As a normal driver you’d never full speed passed a stopped tram even if it’s doors were closed, as it doesn’t take long for them to open.

Re: Melbourne hit-and-run blamed on Tesla Autopilot, could set legal precedent

#65

Post by na85 »

krisoft wrote: post #39
na85 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But the failure modes and shortcomings of these systems are considered and reasoned about the same way you would do the same with a good old-fashioned kalman-filter based sub-system. My personal definition of what constitutes "AI" includes emergent behavior as a prerequisite. To lack emergence is to be a programmable logic controller. Do these systems you're talking about exhibit emergence? If so, how can you possib…

> Do these systems you're talking about exhibit emergence? What is your definition of emergence? I found this one on wikipedia: “In philosophy, systems theory, science, and art, emergence occurs when an entity is observed to have properties its parts do not have on their own, properties or behaviors which emerge only when the parts interact in a wider whole.” If i go by this then yes such a system exhibits emergence.…

The controller in an elevator is deterministic in its behavior.

Purported AI is not.

Re: Melbourne hit-and-run blamed on Tesla Autopilot, could set legal precedent

#66

Post by natch »

clouddrover wrote: post #58
natch wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not about me, it’s more about overinterpreting statements. News flash: Elon can be wrong, has been wrong, will be wrong. This is not news, even to his fans. Taxi timeline was a prediction, not a promise. Elon. Can. Be. Wrong. Hardware is not software. The hardware working depends on software that is not done yet. Some hardware has been upgraded to be sure. The jury is still out on whether that old claim will pan…

> News flash: Elon can be wrong, has been wrong, will be wrong. So you agree: it's bullshit. > I doubt it will, but I think it was made in earnestness, not as “BS”. No, it's just bullshit. Musk's strategy is to keep telling bigger lies because there are always more suckers to fleece. His latest bullshit is the Tesla Bot.

I said nothing of the sort. This is not productive if you’re going to do that.
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