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Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

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Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#61

Post by detaro »

lettergram wrote: post #45

DuckDuckGo just ended their value proposition: https://twitter.com/yegg/status/1501716484761997318 Not that there are many great alternatives, but the whole point of a SEARCH ENGINE is not censoring results. I understand ranking makes it searchable, but omitting views / results based on politics is self-reinforcing and makes anyone using the service blind to views and in a sense reality. I think search can’t really b…

Did anyone seriously believe that DDG or its data sources did not filter content before?

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#62

Post by celdon25 »

p1esk wrote: post #57
celdon25 wrote: post #50

My opinion hasn’t changed much since writing this (just disregard the blockchain commentary at the end): https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible-to-beat-Google/answer/M... A few competitors such as you.com are in the works. I think there’s a lot of potential, but the ranking algorithm is going to need to be decentralized (aka user-configurable) in some way. This configuration would also need to be sharable, maybe someth…

the ranking algorithm is going to need to be decentralized (aka user-configurable) in some way What do you mean? What configuration options would you like?

Okay, one example:

Suppose you're a gamer - You could configure search results related to gaming to be limited to games you own, games you want, the subset of platforms or genres you care about, games your friends own, and so on. It wouldn't be a priority for most search companies to make something like that, but it would certainly provide some value for certain people. Decentralized configuration would allow for communities with given interests to configure and distribute customizations for that audience, in a way that would appeal to that audience. It's not that farfetched of an idea, very realistic both from a tech and adoption POV.

You.com is starting the building blocks of such a thing, but I don't know how far they're going to push the envelope. https://about.you.com/apps/

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#63

Post by ocdtrekkie »

KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #20

The complaints regarding google's quality isn't because google is being bad or doing something anti-consumer it's just that spam and ranking has become harder and harder over time. A new competitor wouldn't be free from those issues.

I vehemently disagree with this. Gmail is an excellent example of worst-in-the-business spam filtering today. Literally everyone else is better at it now. Google is getting worse at things that were originally their core competency.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#64

Post by kkfx »

Resources matter: you can craft few better services, but if you do not have Alphabet resources your better service can't compete.

For instance how can you offer a better maps for PND if you can't elicit traffic data from the density and speed of android smartphones that are around of 80% of phones traveling around the world?

To defy Alphabet you do not need a better Google, you need a different kind of solution, for instance instead of competing in modern web crap to lock down users and surveil them you can propose classic desktop computing with decentralized tools. Try looking for instance at Jami, Retroshare, ZeroNet, you can integrate them in a suite and say "hey, instead of depending on Zoom, Meet or Teams, proprietary services with limits that might change, surveil, etc use this system, there is no SPOF, no service behind".

Some have tried something, for instance DeltaChat seems to be a WA clone, but it's actually a MUA, in that case it doesn't took off much because most people simply do not care, you have to know your public. Starting from CS and humanities courses [1] to attracts students and plant the seed of something new, being prepared to face years before a success simply because no empire born quickly and when some are against you it's even more complex.

The old adage: people have the power, but they do not know how to use it it's unfortunately very true, you can only bend people, use them, to elicit a slice of power :-)

[1] most CS students haven't enough skills to comprehend the world, they just explore few aspects ignoring the rest and that's why dictatorships like STEM, because they help to generate "ancient Greek's 'useless idiots' to be employed" instead of Citizens (disclaimer: I am an engineer, I learnt than personally in years)

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#65

Post by ghgr »

grog454 wrote: post #47
jasode wrote: post #14

>, what would a competitor need to defy Google? One thing a competitor needs is a new and innovative technical algorithm . Back in 1998, Google's PageRank was an innovative algorithm that calculated relevance based on counting back links instead of parsing the word counts in embedded HTML text like other search engines. This created a noticeable improvement in quality of results. Nobody seems to have The Next Big Ide…

> counting back links Do the algorithms weight links based on visibility or relevance? A link at the top of a sorted content site HN should probably be worth more than one at the bottom, and one buried in invisible metadata somewhere should be worth 0.

PageRank is a neat algorithm that recursively weights incoming links based on their own incoming links. So a link from HN has more weight than from a small blog. And how does it know that HN should have more weight? Well, because there are many important sites pointing back to HN. And how does it know that those sites are important? And so on...

But AFAIK Google no longer uses PageRank, or at least not the same version as we know it.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#66

Post by faitswulff »

p1esk wrote: post #57
celdon25 wrote: post #50

My opinion hasn’t changed much since writing this (just disregard the blockchain commentary at the end): https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible-to-beat-Google/answer/M... A few competitors such as you.com are in the works. I think there’s a lot of potential, but the ranking algorithm is going to need to be decentralized (aka user-configurable) in some way. This configuration would also need to be sharable, maybe someth…

the ranking algorithm is going to need to be decentralized (aka user-configurable) in some way What do you mean? What configuration options would you like?

I think 99.9% of users would hate to have to configure their search results.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#67

Post by tomohawk »

Who would fund you if you said you wanted to be a competitor?

A competitor would need to avoid being bought by one of the tech oligarchs. That's pretty hard to avoid.

If by some fluke, you find a breakout opportunity, you would need to somehow avoid getting crushed like Parler. The tech oligarchs will use any excuse to crush any competition.

That episode basically shows that to compete you would basically need to build your own internet first, and also your own banking system.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#68

Post by smitty1e »

elnygren wrote: post #18
ergonaught wrote: post #12

They would need to be Apple, they would need to understand how to write software for this purpose and then deliver it, and they would need to be able to make this the default search engine for iPhones without antimonopoly distractions. Beyond that, Google’s dominance isn’t going away due to their own “monopoly-like” positioning, their business relationships, the inertia of their massive public adoption, all of these…

Sounds like a government intervention is needed and the monopoly should be broken down for a better functioning market. However, I guess big tech companies have become part of the superpower games (USA vs. China etc.). Breaking up Google might just mean a Chinese company takes over. Can't trust the other governments to enforce similar market conditions. So yeah, like you said, conditions of the universe :)

> Sounds like a government intervention is needed and the monopoly should be broken down for a better functioning market.

Well-crafted arguments showing where Google (or ilk) are anti-competitive are likely to gain some traction.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#69

Post by celdon25 »

faitswulff wrote: post #66
p1esk wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the ranking algorithm is going to need to be decentralized (aka user-configurable) in some way What do you mean? What configuration options would you like?

I think 99.9% of users would hate to have to configure their search results.

From parent comment:

> This configuration would also need to be sharable, maybe something akin to an App Store, because not all users can be asked to be technical enough to configure everything.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#70

Post by JSONderulo »

celdon25 wrote: post #62
p1esk wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the ranking algorithm is going to need to be decentralized (aka user-configurable) in some way What do you mean? What configuration options would you like?

Okay, one example: Suppose you're a gamer - You could configure search results related to gaming to be limited to games you own, games you want, the subset of platforms or genres you care about, games your friends own, and so on. It wouldn't be a priority for most search companies to make something like that, but it would certainly provide some value for certain people. Decentralized configuration would allow for com…

I've been pretty stoked on you.com so far. I do like the ability to pick my search sources (apps). It would be cool to see search results for different genres/communities.
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