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Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

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31–40 of 332 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#31
I will argue that he fact that Google is a monopoly is the only thing holding back competitors.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-sues-monop...

The only thing that would have a chance is if Apple developed a search engine and used it as the default instead of using Google. People are busy/ignorant and do not care and will eat whatever search results they are given.

But this might be a risk to Apple based on how many people use Gmail on their Apple phones.

It is not about quality anymore, it is only about market domination. The only thing that will bring about new search engines will be anti-trust legislation.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#32
post #14

>, what would a competitor need to defy Google? One thing a competitor needs is a new and innovative technical algorithm . Back in 1998, Google's PageRank was an innovative algorithm that calculated relevance based on counting back links instead of parsing the word counts in embedded HTML text like other search engines. This created a noticeable improvement in quality of results. Nobody seems to have The Next Big Ide…

There’s a potential technical improvement with Vector Search. Specially for the type of queries that are more “human” (“how do I…”, “where can I…”.

At least for me, I find myself adding “site:Reddit.com” all the time I need a good answer and not just a SEO-tricked ad page. Vector Search could be a technical solution for this. Although it’s fairly new and there is still a lot of research to do.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#33

You can't be just a bit better than Google and you certainly can't be worse. It's very difficult to be better than Google, that's an enormous challenge unto itself. That's greater than a billion dollar problem just to get warmed up if you're talking competing with them at large scale. If you listened to HN, Google sucks and it's easy to produce a superior search engine because of how bad they are now. That's false; e…

> The next great search engine will emerge from a niche and conquer one segment after another from there. It won't be a massive general search engine that shows up one day (which is what the Google watchers have been waiting for forever - that new behemoth comprehensive competitor is never going to arrive fully formed). There's a decent possibility consumer Web search will be a later stage addition to said new niche competitor, consumer Web won't be its primary or initial target. They'll add on general consumer Web search as a "we might as well" offering once they conquer enough niches.

I love this because I want it to be true. However, iirc Google wanted to sell itself to Yahoo! for a million dollars and about five years later again for a billion dollars.

I know there are quite a few millionaires here but for me, five million dollars would change my life. I can’t imagine being able to turn it down.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#34
The principal step will be to move on from keywords and indexing, which are now a legacy technology, almost 26 years after Google started it all.

Returning blue links is a thing of the past, as the Web of yesterday is long gone. Blue links always were about surfing i.e. following hyperlinks just for the sake of it since the main premise was most of them were of high quality and quickly proliferating.

All that is gone now and the links are a promotional thing how to get paid in one way or another. This is why Google results have been deteriorating, regardless of tens of trillions of archived pages on the Web. Google has lost the principal ranking signal years ago.

The next huge scale smart information system will be based on dense vectors (a few hundred dimensions) such as in AI but the key will be much bigger scale, of (tens of) billions of vectors. Contemporary AI works won datasets 4-5 orders of magnitude smaller, getting bogged down in gigantic transformer models such as GPT-3 with 175B+ parameters that take weeks and millions of dollars just to train. One might wonder what is innate knowledge of such a huge model, and it is not much as one can see for themselves as GPT-3 is now open (until Apr 1).

The future will be based on embeddings that are NOT contextualized i.e. no separate vectors for different senses in superpositions. Such systems will not be based on ads nor tracking as the resources required will be orders of magnitude less than what is currently required at Google.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#35
Because Google is the best you're going to get with ad-supported search.

If you're willing to pay for search there is an alternative emerging: Kagi. It's not a Google competitor, though. It's a niche product for people (like me) who are willing to pay a significant amount of money for access to a search engine whose creators make money by providing value to their users rather than by providing their users to advertisers.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#36
I vaguely recall part of an interview with Warren Buffett, where he was talking about tech investments. At the time he was interested in cloud providers and not interested in search. He said that "search is winner-takes-all," while infrastructure-as-a-service is not. Maybe that's part of it.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#38
I think there may still be a quality issue. Every then and again I change my search engine to Bing. Bing works perfectly fine for most of my searches. However, every few hours there’s one search that reminds me “you’re not on Google” because I don’t get the results I expect. I tried DDG as well with a similar outcome, although it doesn’t perform as well as Bing for me.

I realize I am a sample size of one, but I run this exercise about twice a year, and sadly always go back to Google.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#39
post #14

>, what would a competitor need to defy Google? One thing a competitor needs is a new and innovative technical algorithm . Back in 1998, Google's PageRank was an innovative algorithm that calculated relevance based on counting back links instead of parsing the word counts in embedded HTML text like other search engines. This created a noticeable improvement in quality of results. Nobody seems to have The Next Big Ide…

There’s a potential technical improvement with Vector Search. Specially for the type of queries that are more “human” (“how do I…”, “where can I…”. At least for me, I find myself adding “site:Reddit.com” all the time I need a good answer and not just a SEO-tricked ad page. Vector Search could be a technical solution for this. Although it’s fairly new and there is still a lot of research to do.

Yeah Google does this already though

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a Google competitor emerging?

#40

TikTok algorithm applied to search. “I’m feeling lucky” but with quick swipe up/down user feedback on results.

I think this is a neat idea. Google has tried a lot of products and models, but "gamifying" (at least in this sense) search itself isn't one I can recall.

Google Discover is the closest they have to this.

As a side note, I'm a publisher and Google Discover traffic alone has made me about $1k in the last week alone to just one single article by itself

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