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President Obama on Steve Jobs: "He Changed the Way Each of Us Sees the World"

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Re: President Obama on Steve Jobs: "He Changed the Way Each of Us Sees the World"

#51

Post by rplacd »

microtherion wrote: post #50
lukifer wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steve gave massive credit to the talent and sweat of Apple's engineers and designers in nearly every keynote. He was as humble as you could expect of a CEO.

Yes, he did thank the engineers and designers in his keynotes – COLLECTIVELY. However, he also specifically abolished the previous practice of naming all software engineers involved in OS releases. Admittedly, there were plausible reasons given for this, but I felt that ultimately, the reason why Pixar gives personal credit to their movie contributors, while Apple does not do the same for its engineers, is that our i…

I don't think Pixar's unionized - not under IATSE, at least...

Re: President Obama on Steve Jobs: "He Changed the Way Each of Us Sees the World"

#52

Post by mikeash »

rplacd wrote: post #51
microtherion wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, he did thank the engineers and designers in his keynotes – COLLECTIVELY. However, he also specifically abolished the previous practice of naming all software engineers involved in OS releases. Admittedly, there were plausible reasons given for this, but I felt that ultimately, the reason why Pixar gives personal credit to their movie contributors, while Apple does not do the same for its engineers, is that our i…

I don't think Pixar's unionized - not under IATSE, at least...

There are often consequences to working in a largely unionized industry even when your particular company isn't unionized, though.

Re: President Obama on Steve Jobs: "He Changed the Way Each of Us Sees the World"

#53

Post by onemoreact »

partition wrote: post #43
evgen wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without the assistance of a person (or people) with all of those other characteristics, deep technical abilities accomplish nothing. If it were not for Steve the engineers and workers who actually designed and built the stuff would still have died unknown and they would have also probably died without having anything of significance to point to and say "I helped create that."

I think what might be more problematic is our systemic bias toward attributing the "credit" (monetary and social credit) to any significant work to one person. This just causes pretty much any collaborative work that is not between "pure" friends to devolve into resentment. I think this has deep roots in American individualistic philosophy, and it's an example of how damaging it can be.

Well Steve Wozniak also became a billionaire, so while Jobs may have gotten more money but he also ran Pixar so it's not all that one sided. As to the "collective" effort argument that IMO that often get's into a social constructs where people are expected to sacrifice for the company and get rewarded for it. Where I prefer the concept of people who are directly compensated upfront for there efforts vs the social contract of working for a promotion etc. You can't be cheated out of a pension you where never supposed to have.

Re: President Obama on Steve Jobs: "He Changed the Way Each of Us Sees the World"

#54

Post by alexwolfe »

mcantelon wrote: post #27
alexwolfe wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is no inflation to say this man is the greatest inventor/innovator I have seen in my life time. Saying someone is great does not take greatness away from anyone else. Many people can be great, Steve was great.

>It is no inflation to say this man is the greatest inventor/innovator I have seen in my life time. ... Many people can be great, Steve was great. Steve seems more of an amazing businessman and salesman, with exceptional taste, than inventor/innovator. Apple's considerable achievements come largely from taking the inventions of others and making them attractive to the marketplace.

Taking inventions from others and making them attractive to the marketplace is innovation. :)

Henry Ford did not invent the car but he was the best innovator if it.

However, it is no exaggeration to say Apple reinvented many products time and time again.

Re: President Obama on Steve Jobs: "He Changed the Way Each of Us Sees the World"

#55

Post by mcantelon »

alexwolfe wrote: post #54
mcantelon wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is no inflation to say this man is the greatest inventor/innovator I have seen in my life time. ... Many people can be great, Steve was great. Steve seems more of an amazing businessman and salesman, with exceptional taste, than inventor/innovator. Apple's considerable achievements come largely from taking the inventions of others and making them attractive to the marketplace.

Taking inventions from others and making them attractive to the marketplace is innovation. :) Henry Ford did not invent the car but he was the best innovator if it. However, it is no exaggeration to say Apple reinvented many products time and time again.

Ah, you are correct about "innovation".

Still, it seems that Apple gets a lot of credit they shouldn't... people, for example, think Apple invented smartphones when, in fact, Palm deserves credit.

Re: President Obama on Steve Jobs: "He Changed the Way Each of Us Sees the World"

#56

Post by bennesvig »

rphlx wrote: post #10
coderdude wrote: post #2

You know you're a big deal when the president of the United States makes a statement about your death just hours after the news breaks.

It saddens me that the engineers and workers who actually designed and built the stuff will die unknown. Just reinforces that fame, popularity, charisma, self-promotion, wealth, and the ability to "manage" trump deep technical abilities.

Steve didn't manage, he led. Big difference.

Re: President Obama on Steve Jobs: "He Changed the Way Each of Us Sees the World"

#57

Post by Florin_Andrei »

kamechan wrote: post #11

"Steve was among the greatest of American innovators - brave enough to think differently, bold enough to believe he could change the world, and talented enough to do it." "think differently" <-- i wonder if this was intentional.

Intentional, no doubt.

As was the next allusion to "change".

Re: President Obama on Steve Jobs: "He Changed the Way Each of Us Sees the World"

#58

Post by lukifer »

microtherion wrote: post #50
lukifer wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steve gave massive credit to the talent and sweat of Apple's engineers and designers in nearly every keynote. He was as humble as you could expect of a CEO.

Yes, he did thank the engineers and designers in his keynotes – COLLECTIVELY. However, he also specifically abolished the previous practice of naming all software engineers involved in OS releases. Admittedly, there were plausible reasons given for this, but I felt that ultimately, the reason why Pixar gives personal credit to their movie contributors, while Apple does not do the same for its engineers, is that our i…

I read somewhere that this was because of concerns with talent getting poached by other companies (which was especially a concern in the early days of OS X, when Apple was still "beleagured". Still, point taken; there are lot of unsung heroes within Apple's ranks.

Re: President Obama on Steve Jobs: "He Changed the Way Each of Us Sees the World"

#59

Post by Cushman »

hackinthebochs wrote: post #49
Cushman wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't. It's 100% true. If we can't honestly appreciate the incredible magnitude of the effect this man had on our world today of all days, when will we be able to?

I'm gonna have to agree and say that the hyperbole about what this man accomplished is over-the-top. He didn't change the world in any meaningful way. He made great products, and that's about as far as his influence extends to the world. The guy who invented the toilet "changed the world". Mark Zuckerburg has changed the world far more than Steve Jobs. Sometimes people need a reality check.

Oh, yeah. Facebook would definitely have happened the same way without the Macintosh.

Seriously, do you guys not know who we're talking about here?

Re: President Obama on Steve Jobs: "He Changed the Way Each of Us Sees the World"

#60

Post by hackinthebochs »

Cushman wrote: post #59
hackinthebochs wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm gonna have to agree and say that the hyperbole about what this man accomplished is over-the-top. He didn't change the world in any meaningful way. He made great products, and that's about as far as his influence extends to the world. The guy who invented the toilet "changed the world". Mark Zuckerburg has changed the world far more than Steve Jobs. Sometimes people need a reality check.

Oh, yeah. Facebook would definitely have happened the same way without the Macintosh . Seriously, do you guys not know who we're talking about here?

Perhaps I'm a little too young to fully understand the history here, and yeah he's had his influence on computing in many ways. But so have a lot of other people who were far more influential that have wallowed in obscurity. Correct me if I'm wrong, but macintosh didn't usher computing into the mainstream. Up until the ipod, apple has always been a very niche company.

He's as popular as he is precisely because he's charismatic and filthy rich. He embodies the "New American Dream" (wealth and fame). That's why we have so much reverence for him. Then we exaggerate his actual impact on the world to square with our inflated reverence.

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