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Mourning loss as a remote team

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Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#311

Post by erik_seaberg »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #237
freedomben wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. I don't think it's with mal intent, I think it's the result of a (misguided) attempt to give the passed privacy or spare them the embarrassment/humiliation/stigma that some people (mainly those who have never struggled with depression/suicide) think is attached to it. A good friend of mine committed suicide several years ago, and it was like pulling teeth trying to get somebody to just tell me WTF was going on.…

I've had the same experience - when someone passed, no one would tell me the cause of death. I surmised the cause because of that, but never got external confirmation. It was just so ... strange.

Family and friends can feel blame, or anguish over the suicide being condemned to hell (Catholic doctrine until quite recently), so it might be insensitive to highlight that.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#312

Post by nickkell »

jnwatson wrote: post #41

7 years as a contractor is abuse. It is abuse of the crappy enforcement of labor laws and abuse of the contractor. That you can have an integrated member of the team clearly be a second-class citizen, that’s just hard to fathom.

I would have assumed they fall foul of the IR35 rules. I’m assuming these rules are uk-wide, but I’m not sure

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#313

Post by geocrasher »

bckr wrote: post #158
ralmidani wrote: post #73

I interviewed with my current company (where we work mostly-remote) last year. One of my interviewers was a very sharp, experienced, and nice developer. After I learned they were going to make me an offer, I emailed my interviewers, and this developer emailed me back saying he was looking forward to working together. The week before I started, he passed away in a car accident. I was really looking forward to working…

> We don’t say we’re “a family” My favorite way of framing this discussion is use the term "village". A village is a close-knit group of people with aligned interests (economic and otherwise), activities, rituals, beliefs, and ties of friendship.

No, not a family. A Team. Being a member of a team requires hard work and that everyone pulls their weight. Bad players often get traded, and sometimes another team snags a good player. I don't like "Family" because families are (ideally) a place where you are unconditionally loved. Nope. At work, I hope to like my coworers. But we're not family. We are a Team. And no matter how much I like somebody, if they aren't pulling their weight, they're likely to get "traded".

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#315

Post by [deleted] »

thenerdhead wrote: post #82

One thing I cannot understand in the traditional workplace is why certain leaves & sudden departures are never disclosed to a close team whether by the person or their manager. I've had many teammates come and go in the blink of an eye and I'm curious to this day of "what happened to X?". Were they PIPed? Are they fighting something? Did they win the lottery and decide to retire? It's as if the relationships between…

[deleted]

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#316

Post by eyelidlessness »

avgcorrection wrote: post #288
eyelidlessness wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several years ago, I lost a friend to cancer. He had previously worked on my team, and was well liked there. My boss at the time, who I adored and still do, hadn’t known him as well but understood that his death devastated to me. I came in on a Saturday to let the team know of his passing, and to work. We had scheduled a weekend hackathon—if I recall, this had been my idea originally. My boss, very sincerely concerne…

That was the right move by them. But I can’t say that it takes much compassion to in order to allow/remind an employee that they don’t have to work on a Saturday (hackaton).

The compassionate part was being emotionally receptive to hear and understand why I wanted to be there in the first place despite it not being his instinct about what I needed, to trust me that I knew what would be best for me, and to gently remind me—without pressure—that it would be okay if what I needed changed. I understand that’s a bunch of emotional nuance, which may still not come across. But that nuance can be really hard for even close friends to get right when the other (or both) are grieving.

If he had merely offered to let me go home—or, worse for me, insisted—I would agree that it wasn’t particularly noteworthy as far as compassion goes.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#317

Post by gkop »

mgkimsal wrote: post #287
gkop wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What efforts have you made to get candid feedback here though? > it's only been a noted issue with a handful of folks, and never been a deal breaker In my experience it’s not realistic to expect people to proactively note constructive feedback on one’s unhelpful behaviors. It takes creativity and effort to collect candid feedback. Do you work with anyone for whom the language spoken at work is not their first languag…

No, everyone (bar one person) has the same native language. The person with non-native English does not care, and often has their camera off as well. The 'issue', such as it has ever been raised, was "why don't you have your camera on?", and in one case it was "I have no camera", and in another case it was "I'm walking around, you won't see me or you'll get dizzy trying to look at me". > It takes creativity and effor…

Ah, you don’t need to choose between collecting feedback to feed your growth, and a) and b). At least, in my career I found pursuing and considering candid reflections from others that I admire, on my behavior, has made me more effective in a) and b). I acknowledge it’s not for everyone. I also enjoy working with people that share this interest in learning how others perceive ourselves, it makes me feel cared about, imbues a certain empathy to our relationship, and helps us keep our egos in check. It matters more for managers than ICs, for obvious reasons. FWIW

> Forcing "cameras on" is... the covid-era version of "butts in seats" it seems.

I guess you mention this to give depth to your sentiment. No disagreement from me or any other commenter on this article on this statement! Something we all agree on for once :)

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#318

Post by thematrixturtle »

icecap12 wrote: post #192
dvtrn wrote: post #88

Pete would ask to work more hours. He claimed he could use the money. He was a contractor remember Amidst the loss here, this line stood out to me and brings to mind all the terrible ways contractors are taken advantage of, or at least, treated and compensated vastly different than their "staff"/"full-time" peers who are often doing the exact same work . For fun, google the phrase "permatemp". E.g. I had a past job a…

Your comment REALLY resonates with me. When I was fresh out of school, I joined an enterprise software team as a junior engineer. The team was mostly FTEs, but there were 2 or 3 contractors as well - one of whom was extremely talented. It was the talented one that everybody ganged up on. He was ridiculed (it was supposed to be in good fun but I think it went too far), and he was abused and given all the hard problems…

> Similarly, it has a few contractors, and every single one of those guys is treated like an FTE, with regular 1x1s, objectives, and personal development.

If you work in a large company, HR is going to have a shit fit when they find out. And if you don't, why not just hire them full time?

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#319

Post by eyelidlessness »

wccrawford wrote: post #232
eyelidlessness wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several years ago, I lost a friend to cancer. He had previously worked on my team, and was well liked there. My boss at the time, who I adored and still do, hadn’t known him as well but understood that his death devastated to me. I came in on a Saturday to let the team know of his passing, and to work. We had scheduled a weekend hackathon—if I recall, this had been my idea originally. My boss, very sincerely concerne…

My limited experiences of grief has shown that I react largely the same way at first, and then later probably need that time off. So I'd rather come in and get some work done until things really hit home, and then take that time. Others clearly need the time right away instead. I think a lot of people still don't realize that everyone deals with emotions differently, even though they've been told that a lot in the la…

Yeah I react similarly to what you describe, and if I recall I did take some time off to grieve later.

And yes, I agree that a lot of people have trouble recognizing different ways people process emotions. It’s been a persistent thing in my life, I’m well over in the differently column for a lot of people (ADHD/autistic).

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#320

Post by bodge5000 »

ENGNR wrote: post #6
supertofu wrote: post #2

This was heartbreaking to read. What disturbs me most is the lack of any face-to-face time for this distributed team. I understand that not everyone likes to use a webcam, but to have gone 7 years without ever seeing your colleague's face seems, in my opinion, a symptom of a big managerial problem. Software engineers are usually humans, and teams composed of humans should make some effort to interact in a human way -…

I don't know, would it be more awkward for management to force you to turn on your webcam? I think the lack of face to face and the free language of this post shows some empathy. Maybe they could/should have arranged an in person trip sooner than that or something

Seems like a bigger managerial problem to disregard employees personal reasons for why they make not want to turn their cam on in the name of an easier measure if anything.
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