Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple forced to allow sideloading and 3rd-party app stores under new EU law

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 125 posts

Re: Apple forced to allow sideloading and 3rd-party app stores under new EU law

#71

Post by simfree »

olliej wrote: post #69
Anunayj wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No? This is more like Apple telling a car company to allow any gas instead of only "apple approved gas" which is marked up by 30% in price. It doesn't mean that any company can just copy that car and put their label on it.

So you think apple should charge for software updates then?

Apple and Microsoft charge for upgrades on computers, but not for security updates.

Cross-subsidization is obscuring the true cost of a good and not permitting consumer choice, many people don't want UI revamps and feature rewrites bundled with basic security updates, with the cost hidden in the fees charged to App Store developers and never disclosed to the customer.

Re: Apple forced to allow sideloading and 3rd-party app stores under new EU law

#72

Post by olliej »

simfree wrote: post #71
olliej wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you think apple should charge for software updates then?

Apple and Microsoft charge for upgrades on computers, but not for security updates. Cross-subsidization is obscuring the true cost of a good and not permitting consumer choice, many people don't want UI revamps and feature rewrites bundled with basic security updates, with the cost hidden in the fees charged to App Store developers and never disclosed to the customer.

What are you talking about? Apple doesn’t charge for OS updates, yet provides years of support for all its devices. The alternative is charging for updates, or going the android route and selling out users while while also not providing any updates.

Google can give away android because Android is stalkerware that feeds their ad revenue.

Re: Apple forced to allow sideloading and 3rd-party app stores under new EU law

#73

Post by olliej »

polski-g wrote: post #70
olliej wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you think apple should charge for software updates then?

Samsung is charging for updates after N years by simply not releasing updates for older phones

Where N is frequently zero, if not out of date w/o updates at time of sale.

Re: Apple forced to allow sideloading and 3rd-party app stores under new EU law

#74

Post by vlovich123 »

ebbp wrote: post #66
vlovich123 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the typical margin in physical retail stores, particularly with respect to software (eg video games)? It’s hard to find. All the things I found are about profit margins not what the price breakdown is at the point of checkout. I think 30% has been ridiculously high although I don’t know what a fairer margin is. For what it’s worth Apple has managed to maintain a 30% profit margin (not just sales) on the hardwa…

My partner works in buying for physical retail (caveats: nothing to do with software, also she’s generally worked mid market and above, rather than anything high volume/low cost) and I believe _margin_ is often 30-60%, or a range similar to that. Larger retailers will also have agreements with suppliers where the margin is stipulated, I believe per SKU. Obviously the comparison is slightly Apples to oranges, as physi…

Those physical retailers aren't paying engineer salaries to sit around and develop new IDEs, develop the app store ecosystem, content moderators etc. I think people see "zomg - I'm paying Apple 30% for their app store" without realizing the end retailer often charges a fairly large markup to run their part of the business.

Re: Apple forced to allow sideloading and 3rd-party app stores under new EU law

#75

Post by vlovich123 »

efitz wrote: post #65
vlovich123 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the typical margin in physical retail stores, particularly with respect to software (eg video games)? It’s hard to find. All the things I found are about profit margins not what the price breakdown is at the point of checkout. I think 30% has been ridiculously high although I don’t know what a fairer margin is. For what it’s worth Apple has managed to maintain a 30% profit margin (not just sales) on the hardwa…

I don’t know about markups but in most industries businesses would envy a 10% profit margin.

Finally found something [1].

> When setting your wholesale price, first multiply your cost of goods by two. This will ensure your wholesale profit margin is at least 50%. Profit margin is the gross profit a retailer earns when an item is sold. Apparel retail brands typically aim for a 30% to 50% wholesale profit margin, while direct-to-consumer retailers aim for a profit margin of 55% to 65%. (A margin is sometimes also referred to as “markup percentage.”)

So 50% is about normal for retail goods. Yes yes. They have physical merchandise they need to manage. Apple has engineers they need to pay to do their virtual distribution. Maybe 30% is excessive. Certainly that they're the only store and hold a monopoly on the things they allow people to do on their platform is probably fueling that margin to be higher than it should. However, if we look at Steam[2] and other console manufacturers, we see similar 30% markups. Maybe everyone is just copying Apple's lead here as "customers will swallow this". Or maybe Apple figured out a good virtual store distribution model and this is the markup needed for a sustainable thriving business.

[1] https://www.shopify.com/retail/product-pricing-for-wholesale... [2] https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/07/report-steams-30-cut...

Re: Apple forced to allow sideloading and 3rd-party app stores under new EU law

#76

Post by LegitShady »

vlovich123 wrote: post #74
ebbp wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My partner works in buying for physical retail (caveats: nothing to do with software, also she’s generally worked mid market and above, rather than anything high volume/low cost) and I believe _margin_ is often 30-60%, or a range similar to that. Larger retailers will also have agreements with suppliers where the margin is stipulated, I believe per SKU. Obviously the comparison is slightly Apples to oranges, as physi…

Those physical retailers aren't paying engineer salaries to sit around and develop new IDEs, develop the app store ecosystem, content moderators etc. I think people see "zomg - I'm paying Apple 30% for their app store" without realizing the end retailer often charges a fairly large markup to run their part of the business.

apple can charge whatever they want once they allow alternatives for competition.

Re: Apple forced to allow sideloading and 3rd-party app stores under new EU law

#77

Post by MerelyMortal »

xdxfw wrote: post #42

They should force apple and android manufacturers to add 1 button to jailbreak and root. Rooting is much more useful than that warranty

In the U.S., rooting does not void the warranty unless the manufacturer can prove the rooting itself caused physical damage. Just having a blanket policy of rooting = voided warranty is illegal because of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

Re: Apple forced to allow sideloading and 3rd-party app stores under new EU law

#78

Post by dmitrygr »

aaomidi wrote: post #58
_abox wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would really defeat the whole purpose... I'm sure this is not the intention of this law. However it is indeed possible that Apple would weasel such a requirement through the loopholes, yes.

The more they try to block this, the heavier the regulations are going to be on them. At some point Apple might see itself being split apart because of its constant and well documented abuse of it's status in the market.

Into what and what, exactly?

Re: Apple forced to allow sideloading and 3rd-party app stores under new EU law

#79

Post by olliej »

ebbp wrote: post #66
vlovich123 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the typical margin in physical retail stores, particularly with respect to software (eg video games)? It’s hard to find. All the things I found are about profit margins not what the price breakdown is at the point of checkout. I think 30% has been ridiculously high although I don’t know what a fairer margin is. For what it’s worth Apple has managed to maintain a 30% profit margin (not just sales) on the hardwa…

My partner works in buying for physical retail (caveats: nothing to do with software, also she’s generally worked mid market and above, rather than anything high volume/low cost) and I believe _margin_ is often 30-60%, or a range similar to that. Larger retailers will also have agreements with suppliers where the margin is stipulated, I believe per SKU. Obviously the comparison is slightly Apples to oranges, as physi…

On the other hand the physical stores aren’t developing any of the technology used in what they sell?

Re: Apple forced to allow sideloading and 3rd-party app stores under new EU law

#80

Post by olliej »

LegitShady wrote: post #76
vlovich123 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those physical retailers aren't paying engineer salaries to sit around and develop new IDEs, develop the app store ecosystem, content moderators etc. I think people see "zomg - I'm paying Apple 30% for their app store" without realizing the end retailer often charges a fairly large markup to run their part of the business.

apple can charge whatever they want once they allow alternatives for competition.

The point is none of the third party app stores pay for any of the platform development, so why should they get to benefit from them?
Post reply on HN