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Mourning loss as a remote team

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Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#281

Post by saos »

UglyToad wrote: post #225
saos wrote: post #23

Very sad. I'm not sure if this is problem of remote working but more of a relationship / communication / poor company culture issue. But, it clearly does show remote work done wrong. The theme had been set from the interview... > I was the person who hired him and even during the interview process we didn’t use cameras. anyways this is why I'm a big fan of hybrid working. We often think about ourselves in this moment…

Not reading the article because I think I'll find it too upsetting but I think you're right that the issues described aren't necessarily remote based. A friend of mine died of suicide back in college and it wasn't clearly communicated, there wasn't any support offered, etc. And this was a group of people gathered in person almost daily. We found out the details from an online news site. Unfortunately suicide can kill…

I do feel like WFH does compound loneliness factor. Overall it’s all about relationship with others. If we have that then we can all help each-other…

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#282

Post by maleldil »

BoorishBears wrote: post #170
maleldil wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think it wasn't acknowledged specifically because it was suicide, or was it an overall culture of not addressing the cause of death in general? Because the second one sounds fine to me.

How is it fine? Causes of death are not fungible, dying in a freak accident and dying from suicide in a high pressure setting should not be treated the same. Especially since we know that suicide can act like a contagion: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK207262/#_sec_0078_ and the demands of the program they were in were almost certainly a factor

If it's specifically with suicide, then the company has a stigma with mental health, which is not okay. However, if it's always "teammate died" with no extra information, I can respect it.

Your teammates are not entitled to know your cause of death. That's a personal thing, but you aren't there any more to choose if it's okay to share.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#283

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

gkop wrote: post #259
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would you say more about this? If I were a self-respecting therapist and I read this I would feel defensive My background: for 8 years, I was married to a doctoral-level clinical psychologist with an active practice. I learned a lot about the industry from her. I've also seen many different therapists over my lifetime. Finally, I've the great fortune to have discovered a wonderful therapist almost a year ago. This…

Thanks, and thanks for the practical tips in this and above comment.

You're welcome. Good luck. Don't give up. Keep trying.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#285

Post by rmk »

geraldwhen wrote: post #223
brianwawok wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. But the discussions about a benefit of in person work is that hanging out with coworkers end up as “I already have friends, I don’t need work fake friends”. I just don’t think the end state is a cohesive company doing their best work. Just a bunch of individuals doing their micro task.

I will not be able to make friends at BigCo. My coworkers are all in wildly different stages of life than me, or don’t speak fluent English, and making any comment outside of a thin politically acceptable line could threaten my family’s livelihood. On the other hand, saying nothing is safe. And if I do have the opportunity to pick between two equal candidates, and one is like me and has shared interests and one is no…

I agree that a job is not a place for making friends. But collegiality and good relationships with colleagues is still better than a complete disconnect from them. After all, a huge percentage of waking hours are spent at work.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#286

Post by georgebarnett »

jddil wrote: post #81
BubbleRings wrote: post #44

Managers, one solution here is pretty easy. For instance, if your team has a daily status meeting, just tell them "every other Friday, cameras are encouraged". That's it. Don't make it mandatory, don't make jokes about "Joe never turns his camera on, what does his place look like?" In a world that is getting more and more lonely for a lot of people, this can be a life saver. And to HR, I have a similar message. Do yo…

HR has 1 job. Protect the company, they aren't your friends at all. If announcing a teammates passing helps the company they would do it, if they don't think it would they wouldn't. No emotions come into this. (this is not to say you can't have friends at work, but the company is not your family and will drop you the day you aren't productive any longer)

I see this often and it is a ridiculous over simplification.

This entire thread has stories of broken corporate culture causing people to leave the company and somehow you’re translating that as win for HR?

In most cases, HR aren’t the ones “dropping” you (it’s your manager). They’re the ones ensuring it gets done in a way that least disruptive to the rest of the org.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#287

Post by mgkimsal »

gkop wrote: post #122
mgkimsal wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking in absolutist terms, I can't know as 'fact', true. The output/quality/pace of the group was about as close as it could be during that period of no camera whatsoever. But the comparison is my normal MO which is camera on a few minutes per week. So the delta wasn't that different to begin with.

What efforts have you made to get candid feedback here though? > it's only been a noted issue with a handful of folks, and never been a deal breaker In my experience it’s not realistic to expect people to proactively note constructive feedback on one’s unhelpful behaviors. It takes creativity and effort to collect candid feedback. Do you work with anyone for whom the language spoken at work is not their first languag…

No, everyone (bar one person) has the same native language. The person with non-native English does not care, and often has their camera off as well.

The 'issue', such as it has ever been raised, was "why don't you have your camera on?", and in one case it was "I have no camera", and in another case it was "I'm walking around, you won't see me or you'll get dizzy trying to look at me".

> It takes creativity and effort to collect candid feedback.

I'm not sure how much I actually want to spend time 'collecting candid feedback' vs a) getting stuff done and b) supporting other people in getting their stuff done. Camera on/off has not been noted as enough of a hindrance (as in, any at all) by anyone as an impact on their ability to get stuff done. We also have phones and direct meetings where people can collaborate that way.

Forcing "cameras on" is... the covid-era version of "butts in seats" it seems.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#288

Post by avgcorrection »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #123
avgcorrection wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this isn’t work related, So give them time off to grieve. Once you say that “they need you [the manager] in a time of crisis” you are putting the tragedy in a work-related context. The crux of the issue is the tragedy that happened. Not how the supposed leader responds to it. The worker bees can get space to grieve alone or among their peers.

Several years ago, I lost a friend to cancer. He had previously worked on my team, and was well liked there. My boss at the time, who I adored and still do, hadn’t known him as well but understood that his death devastated to me. I came in on a Saturday to let the team know of his passing, and to work. We had scheduled a weekend hackathon—if I recall, this had been my idea originally. My boss, very sincerely concerne…

That was the right move by them. But I can’t say that it takes much compassion to in order to allow/remind an employee that they don’t have to work on a Saturday (hackaton).

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#289

Post by seb1204 »

kradeelav wrote: post #186
misslibby wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is a contractor asking for more hours an example of them being taken advantage of?

Some people can make it work, but imo it's an orange flag for a path to burn-out, especially if it's an excessive number of hours and not a standard 9-5 (with all the rest of their clients put together). A lot of times contractors work for multiple clients at one time, so it's easy to forget "your hours" are not their only ones.

From the text I would assume Pete was working full time for this company. This is also not unusual for my company.

In Germany there are laws against this type of 'contracting' as you seem/are fully depending on one client.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#290

Post by asyncscrum »

dcatx wrote: post #184

Thank you for sharing this piece. Navigating a loss like this in a purely remote environment must have been incredibly challenging — grieving feels like an exercise that we do best together in the same physical space. Sometimes you just need someone to give you a hug. The hardest thing I have ever done as a manager was gather my team into a room and let them know that one of our team members, a young woman just begin…

Breaking the news is so hard. Sorry about your colleague. This sounds pretty rough.
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