Live data from Hacker News

Apple forced to allow sideloading and 3rd-party app stores under new EU law

theverge.com

61–70 of 125 posts

Re: Apple forced to allow sideloading and 3rd-party app stores under new EU law

#61
post #19
post #4

Then I hope Apple allows an option to enable an opt out for these third party stores

Android has an explicit opt-in for allowing sideloading, and a whopping 0.06% of users currently utilize it. I really don't know why this issue is causing such a big fuss in the iOS ecosystem.

Looks to be about Apple's fear of losing control and allowing free choice.

Re: Apple forced to allow sideloading and 3rd-party app stores under new EU law

#62
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is exactly the point. There is nothing inherent in an Xbox that prevents it from running a web browser. Only our collective acceptance of the practice of denying users control of their devices, and letting these arbitrary restrictions contribute to e-waste.

Then the same argument covers a cars computer.

Computers controlling the car's movement should be isolated and ideally certified as fit to control large and dangerous vehicles.

Media computers could be subject to the same side loading regulations since compromise should only impact non-critical functions.

Re: Apple forced to allow sideloading and 3rd-party app stores under new EU law

#63
post #54

The desire to collect rent drives so many nasty behaviors in companies. At its core, this is a discussion about rent seeking. Apple and Google lust after their 30% cut, which is outrageous and would not be long tolerated in any other business arrangement. They keep the gravy train going because of gatekeeping. “I want to root/mod my device” and “right to repair” are interesting but orthogonal arguments. Those argumen…

What’s the typical margin in physical retail stores, particularly with respect to software (eg video games)? It’s hard to find. All the things I found are about profit margins not what the price breakdown is at the point of checkout.

I think 30% has been ridiculously high although I don’t know what a fairer margin is. For what it’s worth Apple has managed to maintain a 30% profit margin (not just sales) on the hardware they sell which is unheard of in the consumer electronics industry (everyone else is struggling to just barely make money in phones and mostly losing while others are taking a much more modest cut in other categories). Partly it’s branding. Partly it’s savvy business practices. Partly it’s immoral business practices.

Re: Apple forced to allow sideloading and 3rd-party app stores under new EU law

#64

“Sideloading” is the perfect word to frame the behavior of downloading apps in a negative light or as an illicit activity. No-one has ever talked of sideloading an app on macOS – because sideloading is simply downloading an app from the Internet as we have known it from the very beginning of the Internet. I still cannot believe most people adopted this word as part of this discussion and keep using it, helping Apple’…

sideloading was never a term used in any official documentation or communication the term was coined by the android community. we have to pick our own nose for that one.

On Android it specifically refers to installing something on your phone via your computer with the adb sideload command. If you just download and install an apk on the phone itself, it's not sideloading. For this reason it wouldn't make sense to use the term for installing anything on a PC.

Re: Apple forced to allow sideloading and 3rd-party app stores under new EU law

#65
post #54

The desire to collect rent drives so many nasty behaviors in companies. At its core, this is a discussion about rent seeking. Apple and Google lust after their 30% cut, which is outrageous and would not be long tolerated in any other business arrangement. They keep the gravy train going because of gatekeeping. “I want to root/mod my device” and “right to repair” are interesting but orthogonal arguments. Those argumen…

What’s the typical margin in physical retail stores, particularly with respect to software (eg video games)? It’s hard to find. All the things I found are about profit margins not what the price breakdown is at the point of checkout. I think 30% has been ridiculously high although I don’t know what a fairer margin is. For what it’s worth Apple has managed to maintain a 30% profit margin (not just sales) on the hardwa…

I don’t know about markups but in most industries businesses would envy a 10% profit margin.

Re: Apple forced to allow sideloading and 3rd-party app stores under new EU law

#66
post #54

The desire to collect rent drives so many nasty behaviors in companies. At its core, this is a discussion about rent seeking. Apple and Google lust after their 30% cut, which is outrageous and would not be long tolerated in any other business arrangement. They keep the gravy train going because of gatekeeping. “I want to root/mod my device” and “right to repair” are interesting but orthogonal arguments. Those argumen…

What’s the typical margin in physical retail stores, particularly with respect to software (eg video games)? It’s hard to find. All the things I found are about profit margins not what the price breakdown is at the point of checkout. I think 30% has been ridiculously high although I don’t know what a fairer margin is. For what it’s worth Apple has managed to maintain a 30% profit margin (not just sales) on the hardwa…

My partner works in buying for physical retail (caveats: nothing to do with software, also she’s generally worked mid market and above, rather than anything high volume/low cost) and I believe _margin_ is often 30-60%, or a range similar to that. Larger retailers will also have agreements with suppliers where the margin is stipulated, I believe per SKU.

Obviously the comparison is slightly Apples to oranges, as physical retailers have massive overheads/COGS that Apple don’t incur for the App Store.

Re: Apple forced to allow sideloading and 3rd-party app stores under new EU law

#67

“Sideloading” is the perfect word to frame the behavior of downloading apps in a negative light or as an illicit activity. No-one has ever talked of sideloading an app on macOS – because sideloading is simply downloading an app from the Internet as we have known it from the very beginning of the Internet. I still cannot believe most people adopted this word as part of this discussion and keep using it, helping Apple’…

I never though "sideloading" had a negative connotation in the Android world. It always felt neutral to me. Kind of a "you can do this if you want but you're on your own if it's malicious".

It also made a distinction between apps acquired from the Play Store and apps you loaded yourself from outside of it.

Re: Apple forced to allow sideloading and 3rd-party app stores under new EU law

#68
post #44
post #42

They should force apple and android manufacturers to add 1 button to jailbreak and root. Rooting is much more useful than that warranty

Frankly I think the current root/jailbreak situation on android is fine, I feel like there should atleast be a some technical barrier to that power.

I'll be happy after they get rid of Samsung Knox and put more restrictions on who can use the SafetyNet API.

Re: Apple forced to allow sideloading and 3rd-party app stores under new EU law

#69
post #45
post #41

So it sounds like it requires Apple to give away its IP at no cost. This is no different from (for example) requiring the linux kernel devs, or the fsf to allow people to use their IP without complying with the GPL.

No? This is more like Apple telling a car company to allow any gas instead of only "apple approved gas" which is marked up by 30% in price. It doesn't mean that any company can just copy that car and put their label on it.

So you think apple should charge for software updates then?

Re: Apple forced to allow sideloading and 3rd-party app stores under new EU law

#70
post #69
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No? This is more like Apple telling a car company to allow any gas instead of only "apple approved gas" which is marked up by 30% in price. It doesn't mean that any company can just copy that car and put their label on it.

So you think apple should charge for software updates then?

Samsung is charging for updates after N years by simply not releasing updates for older phones
Post reply on HN