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Mourning loss as a remote team

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Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#251

Post by synergy20 »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #189
dougmwne wrote: post #13

My partner sat in the same cube pod as someone who took their life. One day they were just gone and a crying family member came by to take away a box of things. There was no official acknowledgement of what happened, no service or memorializing, only hushed whispers. It was terrible. Thank you for your humane response to Pete's death, for creating room for the team to grieve and official acknowledgement that it was n…

That is the worst! I remember when a long-time team member died unexpectedly one weekend. We all learned about it at the Monday standup meeting and we luckily had the common sense to cancel the standup because no one wanted to talk. A number of us went to the funeral and his wife told me (I had met her once before) that she was so happy that his co-workers came to pay their respects. It made her feel that he had a la…

Job places are never your family, it's just a place to make money to keep life going, my take is, don't expect too much from the company you are working at other than paychecks.

instead, building friendship outside of work(if you have friends at work, that's good too), and spending more time with your family,etc. I think this is also called work-life balance.

This does not work for people that needs extra help though, e.g. those who experiences mental illness, depression, down-cycles in life etc. HR and benefit package should have a humane way to do it better, at least, providing free hotline as a medical insurance add-on for all employees.

A good manager should stay aware of personal concerns cautiously in the team other than just checking their agile sprint schedule, it's part of your work. For years that a direct manager never met a key team member, never video chat with him/her, still keeping him as a contractor after 7 years, sorry, I put quite some blame on the manager.

A good manager takes great care of his team, which in the end, will benefit his own boss/company too. Blaming the corporate for your team members' lack of benefit is barking the wrong tree, it's you who did not fight hard enough for your key team members, you're the one should be blamed.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#252

Post by thaumasiotes »

trinsic2 wrote: post #249
ajkjk wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The corporation may not be kind as an entity, but it would be nice if the individual people are.

That's the rub, at least for me. The poster above you is right, corporations are just corporations. If you look up the etymology of the word it comes from latin: corpus (genitive corporis) "body, dead body, animal body. This is why I think that, more and more, people who have a heart, are moving away from big entities like this. I expect in a couple of generations corporations will be a thing of the past, or somethin…

> If you look up the etymology of the word it comes from latin: corpus (genitive corporis) "body, dead body, animal body.

You could just shorten this to "body", which has the same range of meanings. If you want to say "corpse" in English or Latin, you can use a more explicit word, but you don't have to.

The idea of "incorporation" is that something comes into existence - that it becomes "corporeal", not "soulless".

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#253

Post by wonderwonder »

owl57 wrote: post #98
brassattax wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The moment you realize HR is there to serve the company's interests, not the employee's, your expectation of them changes.

I could see the difference with "commodity" employees, and that sucks, but what's the big difference if we are talking about programmers? The company is obviously very interested to make us not want to leave, and also probably interested that we feel like caring about the product.

I think if that was true then large raises would be the norm as they know programmers often leave every couple years for a 20+ % raise.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#254

Post by pizza »

anonporridge wrote: post #206
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the worst! I remember when a long-time team member died unexpectedly one weekend. We all learned about it at the Monday standup meeting and we luckily had the common sense to cancel the standup because no one wanted to talk. A number of us went to the funeral and his wife told me (I had met her once before) that she was so happy that his co-workers came to pay their respects. It made her feel that he had a la…

> I hate, hate, hate the way corps try to brush away any unpleasantness like ignoring it means it didn't happen! I personally don't mind it. It's a good reminder that we as individuals are just replaceable cogs in the machine, that all of us are only as valuable as the productivity we can contribute in the future, and that our sense of loyalty to it should be adjusted accordingly. Don't ever expect a corporation of a…

Once heard this in response to a discussion of an org's virtue signalling. What do you make of it, in this context?

A man had been injured on a journey and was lying on the road, wounded. A good Samaritan saw him and helped him get up. Onlookers then retorted, "Well, the good Samaritan only helped him get up to signal their virtue!"

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#255

Post by wonderwonder »

jnwatson wrote: post #41

7 years as a contractor is abuse. It is abuse of the crappy enforcement of labor laws and abuse of the contractor. That you can have an integrated member of the team clearly be a second-class citizen, that’s just hard to fathom.

I don't know, I was offered W2 at my job and declined it. As a contractor I get to invest far more of my salary towards tax deductible retirement accounts and I get paid for OT. I don't get paid time off which is unfortunate. But I have had projects where I consistently worked 80 - 90 hour weeks. I am lucky enough to get my benefits via my wife's job though. I do agree with you though regarding someone that wants to come on board as a w2 employee, stringing them along for so long is pretty bad.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#256

Post by anonporridge »

trinsic2 wrote: post #249
ajkjk wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The corporation may not be kind as an entity, but it would be nice if the individual people are.

That's the rub, at least for me. The poster above you is right, corporations are just corporations. If you look up the etymology of the word it comes from latin: corpus (genitive corporis) "body, dead body, animal body. This is why I think that, more and more, people who have a heart, are moving away from big entities like this. I expect in a couple of generations corporations will be a thing of the past, or somethin…

> I expect in a couple of generations corporations will be a thing of the past, or something so far removed from society, that it will no longer exist as a social norm.

Alternatively, in a couple of generations, people who have too much heart/soul and can't stomach being part of a corporate machine will be bred out of the gene pool and/or thrust into the powerless underclass, while the psychopaths that have no problem with them will acquire the most resources and reproduce the most, passing on their genes and their way of thinking to their children.

Some might argue this already happened generations ago.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#257

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

gkop wrote: post #244
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, you definitely have to shop. You have to find someone who is a fit for you personally. Don't settle until you find someone who truly helps you; someone you anticipate seeing each week. It takes time and is an investment in yourself. Have patience and expect to spend a lot. A therapist will never say to you, "You know what? I don't think we're a good fit" or "I don't think I can help you as effective…

Thanks. I could benefit from therapy to address trauma I experienced with a previous (awful) therapist. And I get a sinking feeling considering the shopping I would need to do. > A therapist will never say to you, "You know what? I don't think we're a good fit" or "I don't think I can help you as effectively as someone else." Would you say more about this? If I were a self-respecting therapist and I read this I would…

> Would you say more about this? If I were a self-respecting therapist and I read this I would feel defensive

My background: for 8 years, I was married to a doctoral-level clinical psychologist with an active practice. I learned a lot about the industry from her. I've also seen many different therapists over my lifetime. Finally, I've the great fortune to have discovered a wonderful therapist almost a year ago. This was not my first wonderful therapist. But I've also had a number of poor matches over the years.

> it’s obvious they have an ethical responsibility to catch bad therapist/client fits

I can't really answer why they never come out and say, "I don't think I can help you as effectively as someone else." I don't really know. They just don't. I'm sure if you ask enough therapists, you'll get the odd exception here and there, like a therapist not comfortable with a client's erotic transference who then lets the client go. I don't know.

> Why should we not expect the therapist to catch scenarios of bad fit?

Perhaps they don't have the perspective. Perhaps they are trained to think they can help everyone, to some degree or another, and perhaps that's generally true. I don't know. But like finding a teacher who resonates with you, you won't learn the material as well or progress as fast unless the two of your resonate.

> Is the reason that I perceive a market for lemons simply that therapists’ profit motive is a moral hazard?

I don't think the majority of therapists go into their field for the money. I think there are lemons because of lack of experience and the highly-personalized experience; one person's lemon is another person's diamond.

I can't answer your other questions. I just want to emphasize that you need to advocate for yourself. If you don't feel like the therapist is helping you after 3 sessions, move on. Yes, you should have some progress after 3 sessions in my opinion. Doesn't have to be earth-shattering but should be something.

Re-read my above comment because I edited it several times after your post, adding more info (e.g. info about insurance)

Try not to Zoom your appointments. Go in-person!

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#258

Post by peoplefromibiza »

RIP Pete

I didn't know you, but you were a person and it's sad you're not among us anymore.

Our line of business is seriously f*ked up if we don't take care of people like you.

Thanks for sharing this story, it's important that we all remember that connecting with people is so much more than having a video chat to talk about features, deadlines and whatnot.

At the cost of being rethoric I wish we've all learned to be better, let's put people over deliverables again.

It won't cost us a dime, it will repay us with a lifetime of stories to tell and memories to share.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#259

Post by gkop »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #257
gkop wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. I could benefit from therapy to address trauma I experienced with a previous (awful) therapist. And I get a sinking feeling considering the shopping I would need to do. > A therapist will never say to you, "You know what? I don't think we're a good fit" or "I don't think I can help you as effectively as someone else." Would you say more about this? If I were a self-respecting therapist and I read this I would…

> Would you say more about this? If I were a self-respecting therapist and I read this I would feel defensive My background: for 8 years, I was married to a doctoral-level clinical psychologist with an active practice. I learned a lot about the industry from her. I've also seen many different therapists over my lifetime. Finally, I've the great fortune to have discovered a wonderful therapist almost a year ago. This…

Thanks, and thanks for the practical tips in this and above comment.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#260

Post by anonporridge »

pizza wrote: post #254
anonporridge wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hate, hate, hate the way corps try to brush away any unpleasantness like ignoring it means it didn't happen! I personally don't mind it. It's a good reminder that we as individuals are just replaceable cogs in the machine, that all of us are only as valuable as the productivity we can contribute in the future, and that our sense of loyalty to it should be adjusted accordingly. Don't ever expect a corporation of a…

Once heard this in response to a discussion of an org's virtue signalling. What do you make of it, in this context? A man had been injured on a journey and was lying on the road, wounded. A good Samaritan saw him and helped him get up. Onlookers then retorted, "Well, the good Samaritan only helped him get up to signal their virtue!"

An evolutionary psychologist might argue something like that.

Another way to put it, is that while the individual might act selflessly with pure and honest empathy, with no conscious expectation of something in return, this kind of behavior wouldn't have survived in our gene pool if there wasn't some evolutionary advantage to behaving that way.

So, the onlookers would really have to specify whether they're talking about the conscious being who is the good Samaritan or if they're talking about the unconscious entity that is the generic big brained ape that has deeply embedded survival and reproductive instincts that drive their conscious behaviors and desires outside of their control.

I can simultaneously say that the person was honestly just being good while acknowledging that the biological entity may have achieved some kind of advantage by signalling their virtue. Alternatively, I could also say that the good Samaritan is actually acting in a way that is a detriment to his survival, and only happens because of a bug in his generic and psychological programming or an old beneficial feature that is no longer good for a new environment and will eventually be removed via natural selection.

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