Mourning loss as a remote team • Hacker News Board

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#221

Post by rhizome » Sat, Mar 26, 2022, 6:37 PM UTC

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #189

dougmwne wrote: post #13

My partner sat in the same cube pod as someone who took their life. One day they were just gone and a crying family member came by to take away a box of things. There was no official acknowledgement of what happened, no service or memorializing, only hushed whispers. It was terrible. Thank you for your humane response to Pete's death, for creating room for the team to grieve and official acknowledgement that it was n…

That is the worst! I remember when a long-time team member died unexpectedly one weekend. We all learned about it at the Monday standup meeting and we luckily had the common sense to cancel the standup because no one wanted to talk. A number of us went to the funeral and his wife told me (I had met her once before) that she was so happy that his co-workers came to pay their respects. It made her feel that he had a la…

>I hate, hate, hate the way corps try to brush away any unpleasantness like ignoring it means it didn't happen!

Remember that study that found psychopathic traits in upper management?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackmccullough/2019/12/09/the-p...

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#222

Post by wombat-man » Sat, Mar 26, 2022, 6:38 PM UTC

thenerdhead wrote: post #127

wombat-man wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I left my last job I pinged everyone I was friendly with. Then I sent out an email to everyone I knew just so people knew I was leaving and how they could contact me. Not everyone feels a connection to their coworkers and if they want to just leave the job without fanfare that's fine with me. I do think that due to legal reasons, companies will say as little as possible to employees. We had an exec suddenly leav…

Why is it so taboo to talk about people leaving, quitting, or even dealing with their own battles? Shouldn't we keep people in the loop with common sense disclosures? You don't have to say much and it makes people understand the situation and take on the responsibilities. So while it's hearing nothing, an irish exit, or even greener pastures, I do believe it's up to someone to communicate it in a common sense way so…

Yeah I agree, otherwise people can imagine all kinds of things. I just think it's up to the person leaving or someone they report to. HR is focused on completely different tasks.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#223

Post by geraldwhen » Sat, Mar 26, 2022, 6:41 PM UTC

brianwawok wrote: post #183

rmk wrote: post #169

I think human connection and doing things as a community has fallen by the wayside in the modern world. It will be particularly bad with fully remote work: most people do better cognitively and emotionally when they have contact with a variety of people and have the changes of scene that are part of a normal day. It's also sad to see the complete disconnect at the workplace, where people are no longer building relati…

Right. But the discussions about a benefit of in person work is that hanging out with coworkers end up as “I already have friends, I don’t need work fake friends”. I just don’t think the end state is a cohesive company doing their best work. Just a bunch of individuals doing their micro task.

I will not be able to make friends at BigCo. My coworkers are all in wildly different stages of life than me, or don’t speak fluent English, and making any comment outside of a thin politically acceptable line could threaten my family’s livelihood.

On the other hand, saying nothing is safe. And if I do have the opportunity to pick between two equal candidates, and one is like me and has shared interests and one is not, I’m supposed to choose the latter to encourage diverse team building.

A job is not a place for friends. Not in corporate America anyway.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#224

Post by civilized » Sat, Mar 26, 2022, 6:50 PM UTC

Corrado wrote: post #212

dvtrn wrote: post #88

Pete would ask to work more hours. He claimed he could use the money. He was a contractor remember Amidst the loss here, this line stood out to me and brings to mind all the terrible ways contractors are taken advantage of, or at least, treated and compensated vastly different than their "staff"/"full-time" peers who are often doing the exact same work . For fun, google the phrase "permatemp". E.g. I had a past job a…

I was a contractor in corporate America for a while and experienced the same thing. The way it was explained to me was that you cannot give contractors the same "benefits" is a regular employee. If you do, then you have to treat them as employees, which means you have to offer the same healthcare, PTO structure, etc. I don't think the rules around the "benefits" were especially clear from a legal standpoint. Therefor…

This seems inconsistent with what little I know of employment law, or at least the spirit of the law. The difference between an employee and a contractor is mostly about the degree of control the employer exerts. Employees are more heavily controlled and therefore get more protections and benefits.

In a sane world, common practices like forbidding a "contractor" from working with any other company would be more legally risky than letting a contractor participate in an in-office party.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#225

Post by UglyToad » Sat, Mar 26, 2022, 6:51 PM UTC

saos wrote: post #23

Very sad. I'm not sure if this is problem of remote working but more of a relationship / communication / poor company culture issue. But, it clearly does show remote work done wrong. The theme had been set from the interview... > I was the person who hired him and even during the interview process we didn’t use cameras. anyways this is why I'm a big fan of hybrid working. We often think about ourselves in this moment…

Not reading the article because I think I'll find it too upsetting but I think you're right that the issues described aren't necessarily remote based.

A friend of mine died of suicide back in college and it wasn't clearly communicated, there wasn't any support offered, etc. And this was a group of people gathered in person almost daily. We found out the details from an online news site.

Unfortunately suicide can kill people wherever, whenever. Problems handling it aren't solely the preserve of remote companies.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#226

Post by kortilla » Sat, Mar 26, 2022, 6:51 PM UTC

dvtrn wrote: post #88

Pete would ask to work more hours. He claimed he could use the money. He was a contractor remember Amidst the loss here, this line stood out to me and brings to mind all the terrible ways contractors are taken advantage of, or at least, treated and compensated vastly different than their "staff"/"full-time" peers who are often doing the exact same work . For fun, google the phrase "permatemp". E.g. I had a past job a…

>> Pete would ask to work more hours. He claimed he could use the money. He was a contractor remember

>Amidst the loss here, this line stood out to me and brings to mind all the terrible ways contractors are taken advantage of

This is like the one scenario where being a contractor is better than being salaried. Asking for more hours and getting paid for them is absolutely not being “taken advantage of”.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#227

Post by ajkjk » Sat, Mar 26, 2022, 6:52 PM UTC

anonporridge wrote: post #206

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the worst! I remember when a long-time team member died unexpectedly one weekend. We all learned about it at the Monday standup meeting and we luckily had the common sense to cancel the standup because no one wanted to talk. A number of us went to the funeral and his wife told me (I had met her once before) that she was so happy that his co-workers came to pay their respects. It made her feel that he had a la…

> I hate, hate, hate the way corps try to brush away any unpleasantness like ignoring it means it didn't happen! I personally don't mind it. It's a good reminder that we as individuals are just replaceable cogs in the machine, that all of us are only as valuable as the productivity we can contribute in the future, and that our sense of loyalty to it should be adjusted accordingly. Don't ever expect a corporation of a…

The corporation may not be kind as an entity, but it would be nice if the individual people are.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#228

Post by no_butterscotch » Sat, Mar 26, 2022, 6:52 PM UTC

bckr wrote: post #163

GGfpc wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if I hear the expression "it takes a village" on more fucking time I will quit my job and become a baker

Well, I didn't say "it takes a village". I merely used the word "village".

Yea but I agree with the sentiment of the commenter you're replying to.

It's unfortunately a loaded word now.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#229

Post by jlokier » Sat, Mar 26, 2022, 6:54 PM UTC

exitb wrote: post #56

jnwatson wrote: post #41

7 years as a contractor is abuse. It is abuse of the crappy enforcement of labor laws and abuse of the contractor. That you can have an integrated member of the team clearly be a second-class citizen, that’s just hard to fathom.

Isn’t it difficult/impossible to employ a remote worker from a different country? I assume the company was American, while the contractor worked from Scotland.

The company is free to treat contractors as well as an employee in many respects, if it chooses, even if pays them as a contractor internationally and has the legal constraints associated with that.

Things like: Putting them on the same mailing list as regular employees, inviting them to the same company-wide meetings, including them in international company get-togethers and christmas parties, paid vacation time and sick leave, listing them in the company directory and org chart, paying a day rate so they aren't counting specific hours, a training allowance, giving them the same credit for work as employees, equity including vesting, any of the HR functions that were mentioned in this story (such as bereavement support), etc.

The idea that a contractor can't have HR services or that nobody in the company knows about them just "because they are a contractor", or that they have to be paid by the hour with no paid time off, is really just down to company policy. Some companies have better policies.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#230

Post by BubbleRings » Sat, Mar 26, 2022, 6:54 PM UTC

Graffur wrote: post #128

BubbleRings wrote: post #44

Managers, one solution here is pretty easy. For instance, if your team has a daily status meeting, just tell them "every other Friday, cameras are encouraged". That's it. Don't make it mandatory, don't make jokes about "Joe never turns his camera on, what does his place look like?" In a world that is getting more and more lonely for a lot of people, this can be a life saver. And to HR, I have a similar message. Do yo…

What is your easy solution for exactly? A manager suggesting a team to turn on their cameras means "turn on your camera.". It will cause stress. It sounds like they developed a good working relationship and that camera/no camera didn't make a difference at all.

I was thinking mostly about my experience working fully remotely for the last two years at more than one contracting job. And saying that if I was a manager, I would definitely tell people on Fridays or every other Friday "we turn on cameras if you are comfortable with it."