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Mourning loss as a remote team

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Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#121

Post by puritanicdev »

dvtrn wrote: post #88

Pete would ask to work more hours. He claimed he could use the money. He was a contractor remember Amidst the loss here, this line stood out to me and brings to mind all the terrible ways contractors are taken advantage of, or at least, treated and compensated vastly different than their "staff"/"full-time" peers who are often doing the exact same work . For fun, google the phrase "permatemp". E.g. I had a past job a…

It was the same in the last two (American) companies I was working for. In both companies, my team and I have done some majestic work. Still, at the end when C-level people and managers were giving aknowledgements and thanks, my team was either not mentioned at all, or we've received some vague aknowledgements for our work...

We still got paid handsomely, but It sucks to be left out from the end credits.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#122

Post by gkop »

mgkimsal wrote: post #77
paulcole wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one missed anything of value by not seeing my face during that time. :) How do you know this for a fact? You think sharing your face isn’t valuable, why do you think this applies to everyone you work with, too?

Speaking in absolutist terms, I can't know as 'fact', true. The output/quality/pace of the group was about as close as it could be during that period of no camera whatsoever. But the comparison is my normal MO which is camera on a few minutes per week. So the delta wasn't that different to begin with.

What efforts have you made to get candid feedback here though?

> it's only been a noted issue with a handful of folks, and never been a deal breaker

In my experience it’s not realistic to expect people to proactively note constructive feedback on one’s unhelpful behaviors. It takes creativity and effort to collect candid feedback.

Do you work with anyone for whom the language spoken at work is not their first language? They might appreciate any advantage you could offer to make yourself easy to understand.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#123

Post by eyelidlessness »

avgcorrection wrote: post #71
idontknowifican wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this isn’t work related, this is human meeds and suffering. i understand management is ass, don’t become an ass yourself

> this isn’t work related, So give them time off to grieve. Once you say that “they need you [the manager] in a time of crisis” you are putting the tragedy in a work-related context. The crux of the issue is the tragedy that happened. Not how the supposed leader responds to it. The worker bees can get space to grieve alone or among their peers.

Several years ago, I lost a friend to cancer. He had previously worked on my team, and was well liked there. My boss at the time, who I adored and still do, hadn’t known him as well but understood that his death devastated to me.

I came in on a Saturday to let the team know of his passing, and to work. We had scheduled a weekend hackathon—if I recall, this had been my idea originally.

My boss, very sincerely concerned, asked me, “why are you here? You can go home.” I told him there’s no where else I’d rather be. That wasn’t only because he was such a great boss, but that was a large contributing factor. He kindly, gently said he understood and that I should stay and contribute whatever felt comfortable and leave whenever that felt like what I needed. That didn’t make mourning feel any less difficult, but it made me feel like I was right that work was where I needed to be that day.

My point is not that this is the form all leadership should take. It’s true that giving people time off to mourn is almost definitely the best default. But there is a compassionate kind of leadership that can be this welcoming and compassionate comforting.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#124

Post by NotAWorkNick »

mettamage wrote: post #90
NotAWorkNick wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct @idontknow.... I did omit some ellipses; My Bad. Thank you for pointing it out (Unfortunately the edit window has closed otherwise I would add them :) )

IMO no need to burn this nick. Check my comment history, I'm still going strong ;-)

I meant more in terms of leaking PII ;)

Thanks for caring though, and hang in there :)

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#125

Post by Markoff »

I don't know what operation they are running, but I work 100% from home for years as contractor under same conditions as him (heck even my name is Peter), was never hired for this position in person, I don't think I even did any interview or video chat, just passed the test (though I work on stuff position in person many years ago, since then there are no people who met me in person working there), but when I communicate with different PMs they have all their Chinese work landline numbers in signature and they have clearly my number in system, since occasionally (maybe 5 times a year?) when I don't respond quick enough to their emails someone dares to call me from Chinese number in broken English.

So even if I had locked computer/phone (which I don't have) and wife couldn't just reply any email (several dozens per day) or see phone number in email I can only imagine it would take them only few hours to realize I'm not answering and my phone would start ringing like crazy.

Btw we never talk personal life, they can only learn about it, if I explain why I won't be available in certain hours because I'm going to hospital or we just politely wish each other nice holidays, all emails are strictly work, we don't even chat and during occasional video training I never switch on my camera.

So considering all of this what kind of company is this they don't have his phone number to call? And how can they not notice he is not answering his emails and not just call to check on him? Unless he is not that important part of team they won't notice he is missing until his wife let them know.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#126

Post by gcheong »

I don’t know if Pete was working from Scotland in which case he would have had access to NHS, but if not, then I’m all the more convinced that we need such a system in the US so nobody need depend on their company status to have access to what should be basic healthcare.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#127

Post by thenerdhead »

wombat-man wrote: post #97
thenerdhead wrote: post #82

One thing I cannot understand in the traditional workplace is why certain leaves & sudden departures are never disclosed to a close team whether by the person or their manager. I've had many teammates come and go in the blink of an eye and I'm curious to this day of "what happened to X?". Were they PIPed? Are they fighting something? Did they win the lottery and decide to retire? It's as if the relationships between…

When I left my last job I pinged everyone I was friendly with. Then I sent out an email to everyone I knew just so people knew I was leaving and how they could contact me. Not everyone feels a connection to their coworkers and if they want to just leave the job without fanfare that's fine with me. I do think that due to legal reasons, companies will say as little as possible to employees. We had an exec suddenly leav…

Why is it so taboo to talk about people leaving, quitting, or even dealing with their own battles? Shouldn't we keep people in the loop with common sense disclosures? You don't have to say much and it makes people understand the situation and take on the responsibilities.

So while it's hearing nothing, an irish exit, or even greener pastures, I do believe it's up to someone to communicate it in a common sense way so people aren't surprised months down the line.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#128

Post by Graffur »

BubbleRings wrote: post #44

Managers, one solution here is pretty easy. For instance, if your team has a daily status meeting, just tell them "every other Friday, cameras are encouraged". That's it. Don't make it mandatory, don't make jokes about "Joe never turns his camera on, what does his place look like?" In a world that is getting more and more lonely for a lot of people, this can be a life saver. And to HR, I have a similar message. Do yo…

What is your easy solution for exactly? A manager suggesting a team to turn on their cameras means "turn on your camera.". It will cause stress.

It sounds like they developed a good working relationship and that camera/no camera didn't make a difference at all.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#129

Post by absurddoctor »

avgcorrection wrote: post #114
tonyarkles wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not saying this as any kind of brag. To be honest, I ended up as a manager by accident and when the team grew too much I found someone else to do it. I still work at the company and come by to help the team out once in a while. That shift happened about 6 months ago. My wife caught COVID last month while I was out of town. Since I continued testing negative, we decided that I would stay at the farm until either I…

Of course this looks like the fruits of your leadership (“not to brag”) from your perspective. On the other hand it can look different from the other side when you see your peers jump at the opportunity to please the boss. As long as one is the person with the authority in a relationship one cannot really know which option it is.

There might be merit to this in general. But in this specific case the person is no longer in authority so it doesn’t seem to apply.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#130

Post by Graffur »

knorker wrote: post #19

How people can feel connected as a team without even video I'll never understand. It's hard enough to get a social "fix' over video. Audio only? No way. And I say this as an introvert who just knows that sometimes I have to take my "social medicine", because it's good for me. Maybe you feel connected with only audio. I can pretty much guarantee there's someone on your team for whom you're just some voice with a label…

So if you ring your parents you don't feel connected with them? You don't feel connected with your friends playing online games?

Video doesn't provide any additional connection to me. I find I just look at myself more because you can't hide your own video in MS Teams. And then when someone shares their screen and includes a video of yourself, you see yourself mirrored which is definitely a distraction.

Video calls are unnatural anyway. In a meeting or social setting you generally don't sit facing everyone, face to face, watching all their movements.

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