Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Mourning loss as a remote team

sofuckingagile.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 408 posts

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#71

Post by avgcorrection »

idontknowifican wrote: post #66
avgcorrection wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's more to being a leader than shipping a volume of features, you are also an important figure in the lives of your team and they need you in a time of crisis. deleted

this isn’t work related, this is human meeds and suffering. i understand management is ass, don’t become an ass yourself

> this isn’t work related,

So give them time off to grieve.

Once you say that “they need you [the manager] in a time of crisis” you are putting the tragedy in a work-related context. The crux of the issue is the tragedy that happened. Not how the supposed leader responds to it.

The worker bees can get space to grieve alone or among their peers.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#72

Post by heffer »

basisword wrote: post #18
cweill wrote: post #17

I've been working a Full Time Employee in the industry for over 8 years at multiple companies. Never once has HR done anything remotely useful to help me when there were family problems or tragedy, except maybe a couple weeks of paid leave. But I would like to hear the take from a founder who built an HR team to know if maybe I am missing something. I'm really curious if it's really different being an employee vs a c…

>> I've been working a Full Time Employee in the industry for over 8 years at multiple companies. Never once has HR done anything remotely useful to help me when there were family problems or tragedy, except maybe a couple weeks of paid leave. I’m curious (genuinely) what the company could have done different for you in these cases? Personally I wouldn’t expect anything from the company other than paid leave/general…

Our company offers its US employees access to a service called Wellthy. It is good to know that when you are dealing with issues in your personal life you can reach out to a dedicated, named individual that has expertise in the area you are struggling and that is there to help you navigate and organize. Even if it's just for the feeling that you are not alone.

Similar programs are available to employees in other countries.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#73

Post by ralmidani »

I interviewed with my current company (where we work mostly-remote) last year. One of my interviewers was a very sharp, experienced, and nice developer. After I learned they were going to make me an offer, I emailed my interviewers, and this developer emailed me back saying he was looking forward to working together.

The week before I started, he passed away in a car accident. I was really looking forward to working with him, but I never got the opportunity.

As soon as I found out, I again emailed everyone I knew at the company to express my condolences.

When on-boarding I said “I know I’m joining at a rough time for the team”. It turned out it was the day after his funeral (which I found out my manager and at least some devs attended). They didn’t seem to be expecting empathy from a brand new hire, but some folks were obviously still mourning. I’m glad I acknowledged their loss. We didn’t dwell on it, but it might have been really awkward if I had just charged like a bull into a China shop saying “I’m so psyched to be joining your team!!!” as if nothing had happened.

In my inbox, I also found an email from our CEO to the whole company (about 100 employees) from the week of his passing.

There is also an archived Slack channel to memorialize him where different folks who knew him shared their fond memories. The company established an annual teamwork award in his name. And a lot of folks contributed to a GoFundMe for his son’s education.

All of these things are strong indicators that I’m at an awesome company. We don’t say we’re “a family” (don’t believe it if your company or prospective company claims that - often it’s an outright lie and otherwise it’s code for a toxic culture with no boundaries), but we do care about each other.

No matter your position, if empathy doesn’t come naturally, learn it. It will serve you in so many situations in life.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#74

Post by VariableStar »

vlunkr wrote: post #58
dougmwne wrote: post #13

My partner sat in the same cube pod as someone who took their life. One day they were just gone and a crying family member came by to take away a box of things. There was no official acknowledgement of what happened, no service or memorializing, only hushed whispers. It was terrible. Thank you for your humane response to Pete's death, for creating room for the team to grieve and official acknowledgement that it was n…

Is this the norm? I don't see why they wouldn't at least announce it an email. It's a bit of a weird topic for a work email, but it's certainly better than doing absolutely nothing.

I do not know if it is the norm but I have also worked at an organization where one employee committed suicide. Leadership said nothing and everything was toned down. Some people spoke up and complained though. My interpretation is that the response was a combination of culture (although suicide is not "taboo" here it is not a preferred topic) and not wanting to bring undue attention to the organization.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#75

Post by beaconstudios »

kilburn wrote: post #42
beaconstudios wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, the guy /died/. We memorialise the people we care about when they pass away.

I have conflicting feelings about this. I've witnessed a company name a hall after a guy who took his life. We all knew that the main reason he did it was because the company wouldn't secure his position. He was an expert on a very specialized field and losing his job meant he would have to move to a different country. It still feels hypocritical when I think about it. It is generally accepted that a company's missio…

I agree that companies should be less exploitative and generally evil, but that doesn't subtract from this particular case. I agree that it can be done cynically though, and that's messed up.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#76

Post by cookiecaper »

avgcorrection wrote: post #61
dougmwne wrote: post #13

My partner sat in the same cube pod as someone who took their life. One day they were just gone and a crying family member came by to take away a box of things. There was no official acknowledgement of what happened, no service or memorializing, only hushed whispers. It was terrible. Thank you for your humane response to Pete's death, for creating room for the team to grieve and official acknowledgement that it was n…

> There's more to being a leader than shipping a volume of features, you are also an important figure in the lives of your team and they need you in a time of crisis. deleted

It sounds distasteful only because the vast majority of bosses out there aren't worthy of the mantle. An individual's relationship with their immediate boss is one of those intimate things in life and it deserves sanctity.

Help your people and don't be a dick and you'll be amazed at the bounty of unearned gratitude that comes back around -- and often not just once, but continuing for years. Being a good boss is "the gift that keeps giving" to good bosses everywhere.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#77

Post by mgkimsal »

paulcole wrote: post #55
mgkimsal wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm on a couple of remote teams, and set the expectation that I won't be 'camera on' all the time during meetings. My reasons are more practical than privacy oriented. I'm often pacing during meetings, and connected via phone and desktop. I can see and hear what's going on, and can talk back, but when my camera is 'on' it's just constant movement, which distracts folks. Every couple of weeks I'll start a meeting with…

> No one missed anything of value by not seeing my face during that time. :) How do you know this for a fact? You think sharing your face isn’t valuable, why do you think this applies to everyone you work with, too?

Speaking in absolutist terms, I can't know as 'fact', true. The output/quality/pace of the group was about as close as it could be during that period of no camera whatsoever. But the comparison is my normal MO which is camera on a few minutes per week. So the delta wasn't that different to begin with.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#78

Post by jddil »

avgcorrection wrote: post #67
BubbleRings wrote: post #44

Managers, one solution here is pretty easy. For instance, if your team has a daily status meeting, just tell them "every other Friday, cameras are encouraged". That's it. Don't make it mandatory, don't make jokes about "Joe never turns his camera on, what does his place look like?" In a world that is getting more and more lonely for a lot of people, this can be a life saver. And to HR, I have a similar message. Do yo…

Such mandatory face-time—and mandatory social interaction in general—can make things better or worse. It can make things better because someone might need more social interaction. On the other hand it can make things worse because some people are more lonely in a crowd rather than when they are by themselves.

Had 2 panic attacks from a well being manager forcing social interaction to keep up team moral. So yeah there is no easy solution, we're all different.

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#79

Post by [deleted] »

cookiecaper wrote: post #76
avgcorrection wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's more to being a leader than shipping a volume of features, you are also an important figure in the lives of your team and they need you in a time of crisis. deleted

It sounds distasteful only because the vast majority of bosses out there aren't worthy of the mantle. An individual's relationship with their immediate boss is one of those intimate things in life and it deserves sanctity. Help your people and don't be a dick and you'll be amazed at the bounty of unearned gratitude that comes back around -- and often not just once, but continuing for years. Being a good boss is "the…

[deleted]

Re: Mourning loss as a remote team

#80

Post by NotAWorkNick »

idontknowifican wrote: post #69
NotAWorkNick wrote: post #14

Disclaimer: I'm about to disclose some personal information so will probably burn this nick shortly. I am slowly going blind (long, boring story; only relevance to the topic is during a discussion with the eye-guy consultant he mentioned that he had had a close personal friend of his kill himself the day after a night out and that he (the consultant) wished that he had been able to somehow sense that his friend was s…

)))

You are correct @idontknow.... I did omit some ellipses; My Bad.

Thank you for pointing it out (Unfortunately the edit window has closed otherwise I would add them :) )

Post reply on HN