Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Right now the absolute worst thing you can do for the environment is to have a child as a westerner. Just out of curiosity, are you also opposed to immigration from third world countries into first world ones?
No I'm not. I am opposed to unlimited immigration though due to the shock effect on society.
New Male Birth Control Pill Effectively Prevents Pregnancy Without Side Effects
121–130 of 173 posts
Re: New Male Birth Control Pill Effectively Prevents Pregnancy Without Side Effects
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's also patriarchy at work that men would never tolerate even 1/10th of the risks women face in preventing pregnancy. Based on what, anecdotes and your projection? Anecdotally many men have voiced that if they could endure the pain of childbirth in place of their wives, they would. But I suppose that doesn't fit the narrative.
OP is talking about preventing pregnancy not about sharing the pain or risks in pregnancy. Of course a lot of men would share these with their partner. Women simply have a much higher incentive to prevent pregnancy because they are much more affected by pregnancy. The worst thing that happens for a man is that they have to pay alimony. Women face the risks of pregnancy and birth or an abortion.
You mean child support, but more accurately: men would either be faced with raising the child also, or paying a hefty sum for almost 20 years. I guess that's easy to brush off?
As for preventing pregnancy, plenty of men opt for vasectomies when they know having a kid is off the table. The rate is not as high in the U.S. as other countries in the West, but it's still 1/10.
Re: New Male Birth Control Pill Effectively Prevents Pregnancy Without Side Effects
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes — it’s absolutely psychotic to hope for a mass loss of human life and the decline of our species. There’s no reason to think it would make things better — and many to think a massive population decline would come with a technology regression and stall of our advancement. I think such ideas are a form of mental illness, often stemming from delusions about the world.
Not a decline but a stabilisation. That's really what's needed to make our planet sustainable. Right now the absolute worst thing you can do for the environment is to have a child as a westerner. And we're not hoping for loss of life. Just a more balanced population in the long term. We can't keep growing until every square meter of this planet is covered with people, I'm sure that's clear. Eventually resources will…
Re: New Male Birth Control Pill Effectively Prevents Pregnancy Without Side Effects
#124Re: New Male Birth Control Pill Effectively Prevents Pregnancy Without Side Effects
#125Meta: Title should be "Male birth control pill to begin testing in late 2022" > will begin testing in human clinical trials in the third or fourth quarter of 2022
Re: New Male Birth Control Pill Effectively Prevents Pregnancy Without Side Effects
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do we really need more people? America has almost 350 million, and is completely dwarfed by India and China. That seems like plenty of people to me.
This depends. Do you want someone to be able to take care of you after you retire? Medical care, that sort of thing? If so, that means that you need people. People younger than you. People with some sort of societal attachment to you that results in them not just tossing your entire generation into a metaphorical woodchipper, because taking care of old people is a ton of work. The traditional way to ensure that such…
If a population is depending on continued net growth it has to very careful. If there is some constant above which it needs to maintain its growth rate growth will be an exponential process and exponential processes can blow up on you way faster than you might expect.
As an example, suppose we were depending on 1% annual population growth indefinitely and bad things would happen if we could not sustain that. Let's try to put an upper limit on how long we could theoretically sustain that.
Assumptions: we do not develop faster than light travel, do not discover any extra dimensions of spacetime that we can occupy, every human now in existence is near Earth, we don't need space for anything other than holding people, and you can't pack people tighter than 16 people per m^3 (the number of present day people you could fit in a 1m x 1m x 1m cube if we were versatile shape shifters who could take on arbitrary shapes but not change our volume).
Given those assumptions, then N years from now every human in existence must be within N lightyears of Earth. Take the volume of that sphere at year Y and divide it by the number of people that would be alive in year Y at 1% annual growth and we get how much space is in the most optimistic case available per person.
Q: How long before that space per person is less than 1/16th of a cubic meter?
A: ~12000 years.
If we can drop the growth rate to 0.5% we get about 24500 years. If we can drop it to 0.1% we get around 127000 years.
Exponentials are scary.
Re: New Male Birth Control Pill Effectively Prevents Pregnancy Without Side Effects
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
are the side effects really that much worse than what women have to deal with with their birth control? I’ve heard a lot of hormonal horror stories from women on the pill
From what I'm told the pill makes menstruation less painful and awkward for some women. To the point that they don't notice it very much. Perhaps there are different kinds but this is what I'm told..
Re: New Male Birth Control Pill Effectively Prevents Pregnancy Without Side Effects
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
are the side effects really that much worse than what women have to deal with with their birth control? I’ve heard a lot of hormonal horror stories from women on the pill
From what I'm told the pill makes menstruation less painful and awkward for some women. To the point that they don't notice it very much. Perhaps there are different kinds but this is what I'm told..
it’s nowhere close to a solved problem, unfortunately
Re: New Male Birth Control Pill Effectively Prevents Pregnancy Without Side Effects
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
This depends. Do you want someone to be able to take care of you after you retire? Medical care, that sort of thing? If so, that means that you need people. People younger than you. People with some sort of societal attachment to you that results in them not just tossing your entire generation into a metaphorical woodchipper, because taking care of old people is a ton of work. The traditional way to ensure that such…
If I had the option to kill myself off once I hit the point that I'm no longer able to look after myself then I'd be pretty happy with that. And frankly with what I've seen of last the years of my elderly relatives lives even with care, I rather hope that I do have that option. Dementia looks no fun at all.
We're pretty good at preventing people from dying young, and we're pretty good at keeping the elderly barely alive. We're pretty bad at extending how long someone can take care of themselves. I don't think we can sustain a society where people work for 40 years and then are retired for another 40. Quality of life will need to drop substantially, or we'll need massive birth rates.
You can start to see it with that new Alzheimer's drug, Aduhelm. Was originally $56,000 a year, and is now $28,000. The average prognosis for Alzheimer's is 8 years, so we would be talking about an increase of $224,000 in cost of care for an Alzheimer's patient. That's between 4 and 5 years of labor at the average wage in the US. Add in nursing home care, and it won't be shocking if a lot of people's end of life care exceeds their total lifetime earnings.
I don't have a great solution for that. If insurers reduce coverage for end of life care, the effects are going to be mediated by personal wealth. The wealthy will be allowed to retire since they can pay for their own treatment, and the poor will only be allowed to die. You can tax the rich harder, but it's only going to delay the effects for a while.
Re: New Male Birth Control Pill Effectively Prevents Pregnancy Without Side Effects
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
What? Any attempt to regulate or restrict birth control against women is consistently held up as the “patriarchy” because it restricts women’s autonomy. Now not restricting it is patriarchy? Seems like literally everything is. So far, men’s birth controls haven’t been legalized because the risks have been pretty massive. The last trial I heard of had a massive risk of suicide. “Patriarchy” has no part of it.
Women should have the option to control their own bodies - that means allowing birth control and abortion. It's also patriarchy at work that men would never tolerate even 1/10th of the risks women face in preventing pregnancy. Look at the responses to getting a small injection - "nobody would ever do that"! Hormonal birth control is great for some women, but terrible for others. It can also cause suicidality, but the…
There are loads of birth control options for women. Various pills. Injections. Patches. IUDs. Implants. Research for better, safer methods is constantly ongoing. Why even pretend that no research is being done and it’s just oppression? It’s weird. Men aren’t actively trying to make women sick. The warnings are pretty clear—women choose to accept the risks and the risks of current treatments are chemical factors, not something to do with “patriarchy.” There are loads of women working in the medical research industry as well.
Honestly, there’s more safe birth control options for women than there are safe options for men to prevent hair loss. Currently, no simple or affordable treatment exists. Either you’re spending years of income for hair plugs that convince nobody up close or using chemical treatments that have mental and libido risks that often are equal to or worse than birth control pills. Boner pills also carry risks and they were basically discovered by accident.
This patriarchy stuff and pretending “patriarchy” isn’t allowing research into birth control is pure conspiracy theory stuff with all evidence proving the contrary. Those injectables men get have a very high risk of being irreversible and causing harm far greater than any modern birth control options for women—that’s why they’re not common. Dudes would love to know they can’t possibly be on the hook for child support. You’d be richer than Bezos in 5 years if you could find a solution. But it has not happened.