Daring Fireball: Universe Dented, Grass Underfoot • Hacker News Board

Re: Daring Fireball: Universe Dented, Grass Underfoot

#71

Post by mechanical_fish » Thu, Oct 06, 2011, 5:44 PM UTC

anon808 wrote: post #59

mechanical_fish wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should track down the actual post in which JMS (the "Babylon Five" guy) pointed out that even Shakespeare has only about a 50% approval rating. Meanwhile, I'm not sure you could conduct a proper tribute to Steve Jobs without throwing in a little kitsch. Have you seen the "1984" ad? The "Think Different" ads? Steve Jobs' taste was not constrained by a self-conscious fear of cheese. ;)

It's only cheesy if it's not sincere.

Steve Jobs was a grandmaster of sincerity.

Re: Daring Fireball: Universe Dented, Grass Underfoot

#72

Post by Hisoka » Thu, Oct 06, 2011, 5:55 PM UTC

jgrahamc wrote: post #13

Many years ago a colleague, Steve Holtzman, suddenly discovered he had colon cancer. Within a year he had faded away (it seemed almost literally) and was gone. He had money and access to the best doctors, but he wasn't vigilant (he had ignored odd weight loss and bowel trouble) and so it was too late. Although Jobs didn't die of a "man's disease" there are lots of men killers out there that can be stopped if you look…

I think the stress and pressure of running a company also may have contributed to Job's health. He may have had pancreatic problems nonetheless, but the stress, lack of sleep, eating fast food at his desk, etc couldn't have been beneficial. Jobs may have contributed a lot to society, but he probably paid a huge price for it.

Re: Daring Fireball: Universe Dented, Grass Underfoot

#73

Post by ethank » Thu, Oct 06, 2011, 5:56 PM UTC

jmathai wrote: post #61

ethank wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate this admonishment of fanboy-ism that permeates the discussion anytime MG or Gruber are mentioned. We need fanaticism to counter balance apathy. There is nothing more empowering than a belief in what you do, why you do it, or who you do it for. *said as someone who ran a fan site for 16 years

I wish more people could be closer to the middle.

The middle is the most boring place to reside. Nothing happens there.

Re: Daring Fireball: Universe Dented, Grass Underfoot

#74

Post by skeltoac » Thu, Oct 06, 2011, 6:00 PM UTC

Freshly cut grass has the greatest staining ability. My sneakers turn green only when I mow a green lawn on foot. Had Steve been walking behind a lawnmower? I know I enjoy cathartic effects from clipping grass. Having billions of dollars and fans shouldn't change that.

Re: Daring Fireball: Universe Dented, Grass Underfoot

#75

Post by masklinn » Thu, Oct 06, 2011, 6:02 PM UTC

hugacow wrote: post #66

He was a great man. But, he wasn't perfect. He basically took credit for Woz's creation, backed the losing Lisa (and prior to that the Apple III) rather than the Mac and jumped ship to the Mac when the Lisa tanked. The OS X technology was written by NeXT before Apple bought them. iPod (etc.) was a design win and a business win, but Jobs just helped hire good people. He makes a great front-person, was a stellar busine…

There's a lot of nonsense in your comment

> jumped ship to the Mac when the Lisa tanked.

Jobs was taken off the Lisa team before it even shipped (he joined the Mac in 1982, the Lisa did not ship before '83)

> The OS X technology was written by NeXT before Apple bought them.

Of course, what would have been the point of buying NeXT otherwise? NeXT was founded by Jobs.

> iPod (etc.) was a design win and a business win, but Jobs just helped hire good people.

Most of them he actually brought with him from NeXT (the NeXT acquisition has often been referred to as a takeover). Or he found rotting inside Apple itself (Ive had been working for Apple for 5 years before Jobs came back and put him in charge of Industrial Design). And Jobs's main role has never been to be in the production trenches (it's easy to see that from Folklore.org), I don't understand what you're trying to achieve taking down irrelevant strawmen.

> But seriously- the man was a front man for great technology that people use.

What you're trying to achieve is apparently being high as a kite.

Re: Daring Fireball: Universe Dented, Grass Underfoot

#76

Post by jmathai » Thu, Oct 06, 2011, 6:03 PM UTC

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #64

jmathai wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish more people could be closer to the middle.

Most people are closer to the middle. The middle isn't what we need. Compassion, caring, and humility in our passions are.

I guess I considering myself in the middle. I'm extremely passionate about a handful of topics. But at the same time I've learned to not allow it to alienate myself from the majority. The alienation is where I consider the edge to start. It's counter productive because you're just viewed as a crazy.

I think we agree but our scales of the edges and the middle might be different.

Re: Daring Fireball: Universe Dented, Grass Underfoot

#77

Post by meric » Thu, Oct 06, 2011, 6:05 PM UTC

shabda wrote: post #25

jgrahamc wrote: post #13

Many years ago a colleague, Steve Holtzman, suddenly discovered he had colon cancer. Within a year he had faded away (it seemed almost literally) and was gone. He had money and access to the best doctors, but he wasn't vigilant (he had ignored odd weight loss and bowel trouble) and so it was too late. Although Jobs didn't die of a "man's disease" there are lots of men killers out there that can be stopped if you look…

In January 2009 I was Stage 5 chronic kidney disease, in July 2009 I had a kidney transplant. Looking back there were so many telltale signs that I had over the last six months, which I was ignoring as I was busy building my startup. A regular health check has the potential to catch a problem like this. I now nag each of my friends and family in having an annual health check. Its the best time you can spend. This was…

> I now nag each of my friends and family in having an annual health check.

I had an aunt and an uncle (from different sides and don't know each other) fight off cancer 5 years ago. After they were deemed "cured", they still didn't learn the lesson of an annual health check. Around 1 year ago they both started to feel strange symptoms and went to checkup again. They found out not only had the cancer recurred but that it had spread to many parts of their bodies. The doctors recommended a couple of treatments but weeks later they said there was nothing more they could do.

In July and August they both passed away, within 3 weeks of each other. (Right after my grandmother too, and of course it's been emotional for me.)

It appears this applied to S.J too. (If he died of recurring cancer.)

But, convincing anyone (including me, a 21 year old) of annual checkup is hard. The thinking goes: we've been fine for all our lives/ is too young to get sick, why worry?

Re: Daring Fireball: Universe Dented, Grass Underfoot

#78

Post by dmm » Thu, Oct 06, 2011, 6:05 PM UTC

achompas wrote: post #30

mapleoin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funnily I got the exact opposite impression. I thought it was cheesy and kitsch.

Very surprising to read this. Was there anything in particular that bugged you about it? To me, Gruber captures Jobs as both a loving family man and a visionary who is selective with his attention to detail. This is a nice lesson, as I often spend time focusing on the wrong details. Even the structure of the article -- a vignette with a narrative device built from a small detail -- is a tribute to Jobs's legendary fo…

> a loving family man

He denied paternity of his daughter Lisa, even testifying in court that he was infertile. Lisa's mother was on welfare for a time because of this. So if you are going to say he was a loving father, you should also mention that he was a neglectful one.

Hero worship is empty. If you want to admire something, admire the man, not some two dimensional pr bullshit.

Re: Daring Fireball: Universe Dented, Grass Underfoot

#79

Post by onenine » Thu, Oct 06, 2011, 6:06 PM UTC

spxdcz wrote: post #18

pseuds_corner wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. Princess Diana level craziness.

The difference is that Princess Diana made very little difference to most of our lives. Steve Jobs made such a huge impact in all of our (technologists, programmers, consumers) lives. Do you remember what mobile phones used to be like before the iPhone? How OSX kick-started the style of graphic design that is still in-trend, with aqua? How ugly consumer devices generally were? How he made design matter again? How dar…

Rich people can buy apple products, lots of poor people have been killed and maimed by landmines. It's best not to be so glib about how important a god to consumers was when some people did important charitable things despite being a figure in the tabloids.

Re: Daring Fireball: Universe Dented, Grass Underfoot

#80

Post by timr » Thu, Oct 06, 2011, 6:06 PM UTC

"There is no grass in Moscone West."

There's a gigantic grass lawn right next door, in Moscone Center.

Steve Jobs was a great man, but this remembrance hit a sour note for me. It's not about Steve Jobs, so much as it's about an outsider's fantasy of what Jobs' (very private) inner life was like. And if this bears no resemblance to reality, it's not a remembrance at all. It could even be offensive to the people who knew him best.

Remember the man for the person that he was, not for the person that you imagined him to be.