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Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

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Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#181

Post by Kankuro »

lemoncookiechip wrote: post #6

> "What is a shock: This time around, the SEC and DOJ have both declined to investigate Microsoft over the same types of bribes in the Middle East and Africa. They acknowledged my evidence (which I submitted three times) yet did not take up the case, claiming that the current pandemic has prevented them from gathering more evidence from abroad—even though I have already provided documentation that I believe shows Mic…

US authorities don't investigate about MS (hopefully they will), but they use the extraterritoriality of US laws to sue foreign companies who corrupted in a foreign country. The French company Alstom (rolling stock and gas/nuke turbines manufacturer) was prosecuted for corruption… in Indonesia [1]. I'm all for fighting against corruption everywhere, but here it looks like the case was allegedly used to force to sell the power division to General Electric. These turbines are used by the nuclear plants in France, so they are quite critical and could have been used by the US authorities to negotiate something with France. I would have preferred if those guys were sued in France in the first place.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alstom#Judicial_troubles

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#182

Post by tstrimple »

softwarebeware wrote: post #179

Kudos to Yasser Elabd! This man sounds awesome. This part particularly stood out to me: > When he refused a performance improvement plan, he lost the job and left Microsoft for good in August 2018. I didn't know you could refuse a PIP. TIL

You can do whatever you want if you don't mind losing your job.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#183

Post by nashashmi »

hammock wrote: post #104
nashashmi wrote: post #30

There is a lot of supposition from the article based on a single source that these payments were bribes. These kinds of articles are really calling wolf when there are none. And potentially downplay instances when actual wolves are spotted. This is a hit piece from a potential competitor trying to do business in the same market. Going to add further the article has way too much fluff. It’s a play on reader psychology…

Agreed. Reminds me of the payments of as much as $183K a month from a Ukrainian natgas company to a man with no energy sector experience that just happened to be the son of the US Vice President. There's no evidence it was a bribe, just a hit piece, probably from a competitor like Russia

Hilarious.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#184

Post by nashashmi »

digisign wrote: post #112
nashashmi wrote: post #30

There is a lot of supposition from the article based on a single source that these payments were bribes. These kinds of articles are really calling wolf when there are none. And potentially downplay instances when actual wolves are spotted. This is a hit piece from a potential competitor trying to do business in the same market. Going to add further the article has way too much fluff. It’s a play on reader psychology…

What kind of payments should vendors be making regularly to customers?

Accounting malpractice is a common problem in non western nations. Negotiators will personally take money in name of their employer.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#185

Post by softwarebeware »

marricks wrote: post #129

Fridays are the days most interesting news lands because it’s easiest to sweep it under the rug with the weekend. I wish news organizations where more courageous and held on to this stuff to Monday/Tuesday.

Looks like it was "..the whistleblower platform Lioness.." that released it today. Interesting that you point out it would have been more effective in the news cycle if it had landed another day.

Perhaps this is a case of Hanlon's Razor and the whistleblowers need to get more savvy.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#186

Post by softwarebeware »

lemoncookiechip wrote: post #6

> "What is a shock: This time around, the SEC and DOJ have both declined to investigate Microsoft over the same types of bribes in the Middle East and Africa. They acknowledged my evidence (which I submitted three times) yet did not take up the case, claiming that the current pandemic has prevented them from gathering more evidence from abroad—even though I have already provided documentation that I believe shows Mic…

Meanwhile ... the SEC and DOJ are in a backroom meeting with Microsoft with their hands out for more bribes. :)

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#187

Post by notriddle »

sakex wrote: post #151

Bribing in Africa is so common it could be considered a business practice

That's an essential part of it.

"We ordered them to not accept bribes! Never mind that we also ordered them to somehow convince these governments to run licensed copies of Windows instead of cracked copies, and since it costs them money while buying them nothing, the only way it could possibly be done is bribery. It's not our fault because we told them not to!"

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#188

Post by manuelabeledo »

mulmen wrote: post #172
mullingitover wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is the bribes are, of course, a requirement to operate in the US as a large corporation, but here they’re laundered as “lobbying” and “campaign donations.”

It’s really not the same thing. Bribery undermines the rule of law. Lobbying helps form it. The difference may seem subtle but it isn’t. If you believe US lawmakers are taking bribes please provide evidence because that is a Big Deal. If you believe lobbying is harmful to our democratic processes please present that argument directly.

> If you believe lobbying is harmful to our democratic processes please present that argument directly.

Not OP, but it is easy to understand how lobbying is too close to a quid pro quo scheme. If a politician receives donations in any form, in order to push for legislation that may benefit the donors, how is it any different from bribery?

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#189

Post by verall »

criddell wrote: post #50
VyseofArcadia wrote: post #3

Former Microsoftie here. After all the business ethics training videos I had to sit through, I am infuriated by this.

I read a story yesterday[1] how the policy inside Google is to cc their legal department on any emails that you think could make the company look bad in any future legal proceedings. As I understand it, this shields the email from discovery. Did you have similar guidelines inside Microsoft? [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30760923

> As I understand it, this shields the email from discovery.

LOL that's NOT how discovery works

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#190

Post by pessimizer »

missedthecue wrote: post #103
otterley wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go on...

I don't think every culture has exactly the same ethical framework. One can easily imagine a few different examples where that's not the case.

I think the question is more about whether you have the same ethical framework when dealing with other cultures as when dealing with your own, not whether other cultures tend toward different ethical standards themselves.
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