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Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

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Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#171

Post by bluGill »

mc32 wrote: post #111
ScoobleDoodle wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By enforcing anti corruption on the parent company in the US, the parent company should in turn communicate and enforce their own anti corruption stance and policies on their foreign subsidiaries or branches. If there is no consequence for the parent company then the opposite might happen: extra money used for bribes is provided to the foreign subsidiaries with a wink; now the corruption is increasing.

You have to consider that local competitors and other foreign competitors may not have any issues with bribery, maybe they’re both from cultures where bribery is normal. Now you’re asking a local executive to paddle up river while their competitors go down river. Unless you have a somewhat leveled playing field it’ll be an uphill battle. I believe there were espionage scandals in Europe by US intelligence where US co…

Microsoft is more than big enough to not play the game. We are not talking some little company against a big one here, we are talking about a big company, if they don't pay bribes what is the country going to do, they have more to lose than Microsoft.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#172

Post by mulmen »

mullingitover wrote: post #148
vbezhenar wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Kazakhstan and while I don't have any evidence, I'm pretty sure that many huge western companies operating here bribed officials. I don't think that's necessary part of local culture. Of course in poor country officials with $200/month salary are happy to get $1000 gift for signing $100 000 agreement. Western companies are huge part of corruption source here. That's my opinion. I've heard that Ikea decided…

The irony is the bribes are, of course, a requirement to operate in the US as a large corporation, but here they’re laundered as “lobbying” and “campaign donations.”

It’s really not the same thing.

Bribery undermines the rule of law. Lobbying helps form it. The difference may seem subtle but it isn’t.

If you believe US lawmakers are taking bribes please provide evidence because that is a Big Deal.

If you believe lobbying is harmful to our democratic processes please present that argument directly.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#173

Post by leetcrew »

akhmatova wrote: post #155
hef19898 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those annual trainings are there to show compliance. This prevents pro active investigations by authorities into business conduct. Without those corporations are free to engage in all kinda of shady business behaviour. And when something turns sideways, the offending employees passed the training, so the company is shielded, to an extend.

Those annual trainings are there to show compliance. And also obeisance -- on the part of the person required to sit through these trainings (and pretend that they had some connection to reality).

meh. I'd be happy to sit in a chair and watch nonsensical videos for $100/hr any time you like.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#174

Post by bluGill »

markdown wrote: post #128
mc32 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the bribes being directed by MS US or are these things taking place in overseas offices where customs are different? One example was Hungary --I imagine Ukraine and Nigeria too would have executives there who are part of the local culture where they do things differently. While the actions go afoul of US law, they may be in line with local customs culture and practices --that is harder to root out as now you are…

> While the actions go afoul of US law LMAO, surely you jest! The US is one of the most corrupt societies in the world. Where else is it not only accepted practice, but enshrined in law with "money is speech". Please see https://www.fec.gov/ (BWAWAAHAHAHHAH, this is an government website listing bribes... they don't even have to hide it!). See also, https://opensecrets.org/ .

Money is speech. There is no way around it.

Even in the most unfree society in the world you can go in your shower and whisper anything you want. Nobody will know you said anything though so it won't do anything. To make a difference in a society as large as the US you need a lot of money to pay for things. You can print and mail flyers (money for paper, printing, and postage), you can take out ads on prime time TV... It all comes down to money is needed to make your message get someplace. There for limiting money is limiting speech.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#176

Post by giantg2 »

russellbeattie wrote: post #146
asd88 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thoughts exactly. Every year, the Standards of Business Conduct training talks about not bribing foreign officials and devs are like “who the hell is ever in that position anyway?”.

If it helps, I had to sit through all that stuff at Amazon as well. I was in the bit that makes consumer electronics and never dealt with contracts in any way, yet still had to spend time learning not to make or take bribes from wholesalers or international businesses or governments. Every. Single. Year. Initially the training software was badly written so you could just open up DevTools and type "v = document.queryS…

Now this is true hacker spirit

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#178

Post by throwaway290 »

vbezhenar wrote: post #46
mc32 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the bribes being directed by MS US or are these things taking place in overseas offices where customs are different? One example was Hungary --I imagine Ukraine and Nigeria too would have executives there who are part of the local culture where they do things differently. While the actions go afoul of US law, they may be in line with local customs culture and practices --that is harder to root out as now you are…

I live in Kazakhstan and while I don't have any evidence, I'm pretty sure that many huge western companies operating here bribed officials. I don't think that's necessary part of local culture. Of course in poor country officials with $200/month salary are happy to get $1000 gift for signing $100 000 agreement. Western companies are huge part of corruption source here. That's my opinion. I've heard that Ikea decided…

Interesting fact: this used to be the case in Ukraine (IKEA negotiated for years and I believe publicly alleged corruption); yet finally in 2021 they opened the first small-format physical store. Knowing how things were actually improving lately makes the invasion doubly devastating...

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#179

Post by softwarebeware »

Kudos to Yasser Elabd! This man sounds awesome.

This part particularly stood out to me:

> When he refused a performance improvement plan, he lost the job and left Microsoft for good in August 2018.

I didn't know you could refuse a PIP. TIL

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#180

Post by amalcon »

robertlagrant wrote: post #166
hef19898 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those annual trainings are there to show compliance. This prevents pro active investigations by authorities into business conduct. Without those corporations are free to engage in all kinda of shady business behaviour. And when something turns sideways, the offending employees passed the training, so the company is shielded, to an extend.

> the offending employees passed the training This is the definition of ineffective training :)

It's effective in its real goal (preventing fines), just not in its stated goal (preventing bribery). Of course this means that it's at best a half-truth to call it training (a more accurate name would be e.g. "indemnity procedure").
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