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‘I’m Old, Not an Idiot.’ One Man’s Protest Gets Attention of Spanish Banks

nytimes.com

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Re: ‘I’m Old, Not an Idiot.’ One Man’s Protest Gets Attention of Spanish Banks

#31

Post by kube-system »

berkes wrote: post #13
dazc wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, my dad sometimes receives random scam bills via email from [insert well-known company name here] and I tell him to instantly delete them.

Makes me think, that, indeed, the extra friction of paper mail, holds some scammers at bay. When you have to pay the postage and printing costs, it is far less attractive to throw out 10.000 scam mailings, because the ROI is quite likely negative. Edit: whereas with email, you proably need just one of the 10.000 to bite in order to break-even. Whereas the phone company (or any legit business) can easily carry those e…

Also it’s hard to send letters internationally while making them look domestic.

Re: ‘I’m Old, Not an Idiot.’ One Man’s Protest Gets Attention of Spanish Banks

#32

Post by spacebanana7 »

ilamont wrote: post #8

The OECD published the results of a massive survey of member countries some years ago, titled "Skills Matter" ( https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/skills-matter_978926... ). The researchers defined 4 levels of technology proficiency, based on the types of tasks users can complete successfully. There was a very good summary published here ( https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/ ) and excerpted b…

The cited survey was done in 2016, which isn't that long ago.

Re: ‘I’m Old, Not an Idiot.’ One Man’s Protest Gets Attention of Spanish Banks

#33

Post by harperlee »

Some important context that the article overlook: Spain was until recently the country with most bank branches per citizen, and after the financial crisis the number of banks has decreased from about 60 to about 6 due to M&A activity. Merges and acquisitions continue to be planned. In the last 5 years, a third of all branches has been closed.

Re: ‘I’m Old, Not an Idiot.’ One Man’s Protest Gets Attention of Spanish Banks

#34

Post by alistairSH »

jacquesm wrote: post #10
ilamont wrote: post #8

The OECD published the results of a massive survey of member countries some years ago, titled "Skills Matter" ( https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/skills-matter_978926... ). The researchers defined 4 levels of technology proficiency, based on the types of tasks users can complete successfully. There was a very good summary published here ( https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/ ) and excerpted b…

And why should they? Just like there are people that don't read books and that don't watch TV using a computer should not be a mandatory thing. What it could be is a way to streamline stuff but there should always be alternatives. And older people have enough issues in their lives to be dealt another bunch of hardship from those that they are pretty much forced to do business with. But banks and other institutions ha…

Just like there are people that don't read books and that don't watch TV using a computer should not be a mandatory thing.

"don't read" and "can't read" aren't the same thing. Same for computers. A baseline ability to read is required to function in modern society. I'd argue the same is true for computers. That doesn't imply the user MUST use a computer or read books regularly on their own, only that they should be able to read or use a computer when life requires.

All that said, I do agree that there should be alternatives to online forms for paying bills, etc.

Re: ‘I’m Old, Not an Idiot.’ One Man’s Protest Gets Attention of Spanish Banks

#35

Post by rosndo »

kube-system wrote: post #28
rosndo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you ever need to prove this kind of transactions to the tax man as an individual? As a business it’s your duty to take care of your recordkeeping, print out the invoices if you so prefer.

The first mortgage bill of the year typically includes tax statements for the prior year. Etc.

I thought this thread was about utility bills, but okay, I’ll play along with your incredibly specific example.

Is this a weird american thing? At least here in the UK mortgage interest deductions are only applicable to businesses.

Re: ‘I’m Old, Not an Idiot.’ One Man’s Protest Gets Attention of Spanish Banks

#36

Post by adriand »

Macha wrote: post #3

I've had to assist an elderly neighbour after her phone company cut off her phone service. Why? The way she had paid for it for the preceding 40 years was she would get the paper bill in mail, and then go down to the post office and organise payment using the details in that paper bill. They switched her over to paperless billing with an email that they've done so but you can opt out. She either did not understand th…

I recently endured a Kafka-esque nightmare with my bank. I had this personal VISA card for several years but I rarely used it because I also have a Mastercard that I prefer. Anyway, two years ago when I started my current venture I opened a business bank account with my preferred bank for business banking (same bank I had the personal VISA through), so I applied for a business VISA. At the same time, I told them I wanted to cancel my personal VISA, because I don't need three credit cards. No problem, did the paperwork and left the card at the bank.

A couple of weeks ago, I received this stern letter informing me that I'm "not acting in accordance with my cardholder agreement / unpaid bills / unfulfilled obligations / we've cancelled your account / etc." It lists a card number I don't recognize. I call them right away.

Turns out it was the personal VISA I cancelled two years ago. Around six months ago, a transaction went through on the account. Then I didn't pay off the transaction. Of course I didn't: I received no notice, no mail, no phone call, nothing. Why would I, for a card that at that point had been cancelled for 1.5 years? So after months of "defaulting" they freaked out, "cancelled" the card, put a black mark on my credit rating, and sent me that letter.

Meanwhile I have been doing business with the bank, and with my business VISA (same exact companies!) the whole time.

Trying to rectify this issue was a bureaucratic nightmare, where I got shuttled from my bank branch over to VISA and back again. It featured enjoyable conversations that started with things like, "for identity verification purposes, please give me the three digits on the back of your card" (hadn't had it in two years!) and ended with "I'm afraid we can't verify your identity".

What was especially frustrating was I managed to find the paperwork for the card cancellation. I have a signed and dated document that says right on it, "Card destroyed in branch".

After seven or eight interactions with VISA and my bank, I finally managed to get them to resolve the issue. But this all could have been avoided had they simply called me or mailed me a letter. Instead, they claimed that they'd sent statements to the "online portal" which, of course, I did not have access to, since I'd closed the account!

Re: ‘I’m Old, Not an Idiot.’ One Man’s Protest Gets Attention of Spanish Banks

#37

Post by rosndo »

berkes wrote: post #13
dazc wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, my dad sometimes receives random scam bills via email from [insert well-known company name here] and I tell him to instantly delete them.

Makes me think, that, indeed, the extra friction of paper mail, holds some scammers at bay. When you have to pay the postage and printing costs, it is far less attractive to throw out 10.000 scam mailings, because the ROI is quite likely negative. Edit: whereas with email, you proably need just one of the 10.000 to bite in order to break-even. Whereas the phone company (or any legit business) can easily carry those e…

This is a bizarre idea.

Scammers printing scam letters can just as easily print fake postmarks.

> When you have to pay the postage and printing costs, it is far less attractive to throw out 10.000 scam mailings, because the ROI is quite likely negative

Try to do think about the math here. What kind of scam mail are you sending to reach such bad ROI? Let’s imagine these are fake utility bills for around 50 euros and total cost to the scammer is 1 euro per letter. Your success rate would have to be incredibly bad for the ROI to be negative.

Now, target tenants of rental properties instead and tell them they need to pay their rent to a new account. Profits go up 10-100x, costs stay the same.

Re: ‘I’m Old, Not an Idiot.’ One Man’s Protest Gets Attention of Spanish Banks

#38

Post by justin66 »

rosndo wrote: post #35
kube-system wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first mortgage bill of the year typically includes tax statements for the prior year. Etc.

I thought this thread was about utility bills, but okay, I’ll play along with your incredibly specific example. Is this a weird american thing? At least here in the UK mortgage interest deductions are only applicable to businesses.

> I thought this thread was about utility bills

It was, which is why your comment starting with "As a business" was so bizarrely off-topic.

> Is this a weird american thing? At least here in the UK mortgage interest deductions are only applicable to businesses.

Yes. American homeowners can under most circumstances treat their mortage interest payments as tax deductable.

Re: ‘I’m Old, Not an Idiot.’ One Man’s Protest Gets Attention of Spanish Banks

#39

Post by MikeDelta »

jacquesm wrote: post #10
ilamont wrote: post #8

The OECD published the results of a massive survey of member countries some years ago, titled "Skills Matter" ( https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/skills-matter_978926... ). The researchers defined 4 levels of technology proficiency, based on the types of tasks users can complete successfully. There was a very good summary published here ( https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/ ) and excerpted b…

And why should they? Just like there are people that don't read books and that don't watch TV using a computer should not be a mandatory thing. What it could be is a way to streamline stuff but there should always be alternatives. And older people have enough issues in their lives to be dealt another bunch of hardship from those that they are pretty much forced to do business with. But banks and other institutions ha…

And in addition to that, it's not just using a computer but also being able to navigate a poorly designed UI.

Re: ‘I’m Old, Not an Idiot.’ One Man’s Protest Gets Attention of Spanish Banks

#40

Post by Terretta »

Anyone happen to know the good reason retirees at 80 years old need hours extended outside the daytime window?

Of all segments, superficially seems they'd be the most able to visit a branch during business day. But a second thought says that's probably failing to think in their shoes.

For example, if they are less able to get around than younger segments, the issue could be being taken to the bank by a working family member who can only take them before or after the driver's working hours. (But driving is a US thing, while EU is chock full of busses, so maybe it's not driver, maybe it's availability of someone just 'accompanying' them.)

Other reasons?

As our population ages, and depending on the pool of problems causing the need for extended hours, I'm wondering if there's some service that could be offered to resolve whatever the collection of reasons are across not just banking but anything with limited hours that retirees need.

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