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What Le Corbusier got wrong and right in his design of Chandigarh

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Re: What Le Corbusier got wrong and right in his design of Chandigarh

#21

Post by entropyie »

We can't have a discussion of Le Corbusier and modernism with mentioning the concept of "legibility" as illuminated here: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/07/26/a-big-little-idea-call...

Relevant quote: " High-modernist (think Bauhaus and Le Corbusier) aesthetics necessarily lead to simplification, since a reality that serves many purposes presents itself as illegible to a vision informed by a singular purpose. Any elements that are non-functional with respect to the singular purpose tend to confuse, and are therefore eliminated during the attempt to “rationalize.” "

I stayed in one of Le Corbusier's buildings in Marseilles (now a hotel) and loved it, but his treatment of neighbourhoods seems to ignore human nature/scale to our detriment.

Re: What Le Corbusier got wrong and right in his design of Chandigarh

#22

Post by arlort »

gumby wrote: post #12
cassepipe wrote: post #4

He also had a plan to destroy a bunch of Paris to make it car-centered and more "modern". Be open to innovations but beware of modernists.

I agree with you, but to be fair this very practice is what gave us the Paris so many people love. It just wasn’t Le Courbusier but Haussmann.

Not just Paris, cities are built on the corpses of their past selves. Go back enough in the life of any major building in an historical city and you're likely to find someone who thought it was an abomination that should never have replaced a lovely piece of architecture

This is not to say that new is always better, to be clear, but cities are living things, sometimes I'm worried we're trying too hard to preserve everything for the future

Re: What Le Corbusier got wrong and right in his design of Chandigarh

#23

Post by kwhitefoot »

denton-scratch wrote: post #16

First a cookie popup with only an "Accept" button (that isn't auto-clicked by Super Agent); then a demand for payment that can't be dismissed, and blocks the article. Please don't post paywalled articles.

Install uBlock Origin.

Re: What Le Corbusier got wrong and right in his design of Chandigarh

#24

Post by Barrin92 »

lqet wrote: post #18

Le Corbusier is a mystery to me. I would very much like to understand the intellectual bending of his esthetic instincts that lead him going from this [0, 1, 2] to this [3, 4, 5] and his ideas of "machines for living" [6]. With good intentions, he invented the modern ghetto. [0] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Maison_b... [1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/CF05.jpg [2] https:/…

I think Sainte-Marie in cleaner form[1] rather than in the unflattering state of that wiki picture and the Chandigarh Secretariat look great.

[1]https://lecorbusier-worldheritage.org/wp-content/webpc-passt...

Re: What Le Corbusier got wrong and right in his design of Chandigarh

#25

Post by Spooky23 »

nerdponx wrote: post #15
cassepipe wrote: post #4

He also had a plan to destroy a bunch of Paris to make it car-centered and more "modern". Be open to innovations but beware of modernists.

Robert Moses famously did this to New York. The city continues to suffer under his legacy.

It’s fashionable to say that. Yet I think NYC would be worse off had he not been around.

Moses was a complex man and he did stuff good and bad. The unique thing about Moses is that he was an incredibly talented individual, both genius and villain. His acquisition, wielding, and addiction to power is fascinating.

The other thing is that he attracted the attention of the greatest biographer of the modern era. His legacy is documented in depth while the people who destroyed Baltimore, Cincinnati, Syracuse, etc get the benefit of anonymity.

Caro boiled it down to one idea: “Moses loved the public but hated people.”

Re: What Le Corbusier got wrong and right in his design of Chandigarh

#26

Post by martneumann »

lqet wrote: post #18

Le Corbusier is a mystery to me. I would very much like to understand the intellectual bending of his esthetic instincts that lead him going from this [0, 1, 2] to this [3, 4, 5] and his ideas of "machines for living" [6]. With good intentions, he invented the modern ghetto. [0] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Maison_b... [1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/CF05.jpg [2] https:/…

The first few are single family villas, the last four are multi family housing complexes.

For some reason, people in Europe back in the 60s believed that creating dense housing only units with no sense of scale, long commutes and walks and 100% car dependence was the way forward.

That experiment backfired almost everywhere. Some of these homes, both in Eastern and Western Europe are well connected via public transport, integrate commercial and residential zones and are fairly nice to live in. Most, however, are simply unhealthy for both the planet and the residents.

It's great to live in dense places; but its benefits are countered by huge, empty plazas that take 15 minutes to cross if I just want to walk to the next corner store.

Re: What Le Corbusier got wrong and right in his design of Chandigarh

#27

Post by nerdponx »

Spooky23 wrote: post #25
nerdponx wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Robert Moses famously did this to New York. The city continues to suffer under his legacy.

It’s fashionable to say that. Yet I think NYC would be worse off had he not been around. Moses was a complex man and he did stuff good and bad. The unique thing about Moses is that he was an incredibly talented individual, both genius and villain. His acquisition, wielding, and addiction to power is fascinating. The other thing is that he attracted the attention of the greatest biographer of the modern era. His legac…

Fair about anonymity, and fair about his talent. But I can't forgive him for what he did to the Rockaways, as much as I can't forgive whoever designed the Inner Loop highway in Rochester. The fact that I know one's name and not the other doesn't change my dislike of what they did.

Re: What Le Corbusier got wrong and right in his design of Chandigarh

#28

Post by Pxtl »

Wonderful article - I had no idea that Le Corbusier was involved in "modernizing" an Indian city.

But I feel like some maps and aerial views and wider shots would've illustrated some of the higher-level discussions for a Westerner like me.

I kept craving more visuals to correspond to what the author was talking about. Often the phots they did provide contrasted quite strongly with the descriptions - like when discussing the upper-class Sector 23 and the more cosmopolitan Sector 17 (these names are almost cartoonishly dystopian) the photos seem to be almost reversed, since the Sector 23 photo looks much more run-down contrasted against the open and polished plaza shown of Sector 17.

Re: What Le Corbusier got wrong and right in his design of Chandigarh

#30

Post by namdnay »

keiferski wrote: post #14
gumby wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you, but to be fair this very practice is what gave us the Paris so many people love. It just wasn’t Le Courbusier but Haussmann.

The areas of Paris which are most popular amongst locals today are in the East and Northeast, most of which weren't affected by Hausmann's reforms.

Yes, because the Hausmannian places are too expensive, due to their global popularity :)
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