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Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

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Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#81
It could be worse - before 1805 on a Royal Navy ships PM would come before AM:

"Up to late 1805 the Royal Navy used three days: nautical, civil (or "natural"), and astronomical. For example, a nautical day of 10 July, would commence at noon on 9 July civil reckoning and end noon on 10 July civil reckoning, with PM coming before AM. The astronomical day of 10 July, would commence at noon of 10 July civil reckoning and ended at noon on 11 July"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nautical_time#Nautical_day

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#82
Years ago I missed a night international flight because of this. It left at 12:00 am (midnight) Nov.10, but to me that meant at the end of the day so I show up 3 hours early at 9pm on Nov.10, only to find out the flight left 21 hours ago. I should have arrived 9pm Nov.9 to catch the plane at 12:00am which technically was the very start of Nov.10.

I've noticed that they no longer post 12:00am as a flight time. Instead it would be listed a few minutes before, like 11:55pm Nov.9.

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#83
post #16

Imagine if 12AM meant 12 noon. What would one second past 12 noon be? It'd have to be 12:00:01 PM. Even one millisecond past 12 noon would be PM. So "12AM" could only exist for an infinitesimal length of time, in contrast to 11AM, 10AM etc. which each last for an hour.

There's a misalignment between the sequential numbers (begin at 1:00; end at 12:59) and AM/PM (begin at 12:00; end at 11:59). A 24-hour clock fixes this, but if we insist on a 12-hour clock we could still align these two spans by renumbering the "12" hours as "0" hours. Then we would see 11:59 AM -> 0:00 PM -> 0:01 PM.

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#85

The way to remember this that finally clicked for me is that 'A' means 'ante', 'P' means 'post', and 'M' means Meridian some Latin word that means the sun is directly overhead. Or more practically speaking: noon. 12:00 PM is noon because one minute later, the sun is past being directly above. That is, it's 12:01 Post Meridiem. Since it would obviously be nonsensical for 12:00 AM to be immediately followed by 12:01 PM…

Does not make any sense at all. You jump from "sun is overhead in 12 hours" (12 AM) to "sun is overhead in 1 hour" (1 AM) when you follow that logic. The 12 hour-system is broken and should go away.

Would you want the clock face to be changed to show 24 hours instead of 12? (What would be the number at the top then - 0 or 24?)

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#86
post #10

Ante meridium and post meridium. Ante- meaning “before”, meridium meaning “highest point of the sun” as in when the sun crosses the “meridian” which would be the line in which it is now setting instead of rising. Passing from post-meridian to ante-meridian is exactly 12 hours from when the sun passed the meridian point, to keep it “consistent”. I get though that it’s confusing, I questioned it a lot as a young boy. P…

I already used 24 hour time and ISO8601 date formats when I lived in Canada (up until 12 years ago).

It's like using metric. Just use it.

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#87
post #78
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m deploying on Friday night at 11:15pm Eastern or 5:15am in the UK.

We're discussing time formats. Some Europeans would complain when we'd write "I'm deploying on Friday morning at 10am Eastern or 3pm CET." instead of "15:00 CET"

I would expect whatever format you use and then “translate” it according to my time or date format. As long as the TZ is listed everyone should be fine.

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#88
post #10

Ante meridium and post meridium. Ante- meaning “before”, meridium meaning “highest point of the sun” as in when the sun crosses the “meridian” which would be the line in which it is now setting instead of rising. Passing from post-meridian to ante-meridian is exactly 12 hours from when the sun passed the meridian point, to keep it “consistent”. I get though that it’s confusing, I questioned it a lot as a young boy. P…

FWIW there are very few moments in time and space where the sun will have reached its highest point at exactly 12:00 PM so even that logic is nonsensical. The only consistent mental model is that for traditional reasons clocks go from 1 to 12 and 12 is actually the zero point of the next 12 hour cycle. It's literally just a cultural artefact you have to commit to rote memorization because there's no good reason for it to be that way ever since digital watches became a thing and people no longer had to rely on bell towers to give them the time of day (which can't strike zero times for obvious reasons).

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Google searched "why shouldn't I use retarded as an insult" and came up with this result: https://www.verywellfamily.com/what-is-the-r-word-3105651

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