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Ask HN: How to provide a free trial without being abused?

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Re: Ask HN: How to provide a free trial without being abused?

#11

Post by nojito »

humanistbot wrote: post #10
pid-1 wrote: post #3

- trigger warning - Allow the whole onboarding process to be done without a CC, don't even mention that. But when a user is doing their first deploy, tell them they need a CC to complete this step. Thanks to the sunken cost fallacy, users will be more likely to proceed.

This is a dark pattern and will infuriate both your abusers and legitimate users.

Not really.

All the big SAAS offerings utilize this pattern.

It’s one of the best ways to get a nice core group of dedicated users that will help you iterate.

Re: Ask HN: How to provide a free trial without being abused?

#12

Post by jrumbut »

Just something that occurred to me:

You could make a link allowing them to explain by email their need for a no-CC-required trial.

That way you make a little speedbump and get a an email you know they use to market to (with opt-in).

In reality though, I suspect that most of the users who won't put in a card for a trial won't put in a card to pay either.

Re: Ask HN: How to provide a free trial without being abused?

#13

Post by corobo »

3np wrote: post #6

What do you think about offering locking up some minimum amount of cryptocurrency (say, Bitcoin), which would withdrawable at the end of the trial but also being usable as payment for continued service? One could utilize HTLCs so that the coins are locked for a predefined amount of time - so you wouldn't need to take custody of the coins during the trial but still be able to them if you decide there was abuse. If you…

So instead of supplying a credit card, which already causes people to bounce, ask them to learn and use crypto?

At that point just factor being abused into your prices honestly

Re: Ask HN: How to provide a free trial without being abused?

#14

Post by mojzu »

You could limit the free trial in some way (number of connections, ability to connect to other services) that makes it less appealing for abuse, however you may just end up playing a cat and mouse game on that front

Personally I'd be okay providing a CC for verification/fraud prevention, but what puts me off doing it most of the time is it'll then automatically start being charged if I forget to cancel within a certain time. If there was a manual step of moving from free trial -> paid subscription I'd be less hesitant

Re: Ask HN: How to provide a free trial without being abused?

#15

Post by tonetheman »

We had this problems a lot. You have to make it painful enough that scammers do not want to bother.

Put Cloudflare in front of your IP. Everytime someone abuses you then block their IP at CF. If you can automate this even better.

Reduce the service for a free trial in someway that hurts hackers but not real customers. You will have to think about this it might tricky or not possible.

Add software to your stack to watch for port scans and cut the users off instantly. Or watch for DDOS. There is some number of packets that come out of a valid session vs the number that comes out of DDOS.

And then finally the trials that abuse you are junk trials they will never convert. The CC definitely will keep your trials low it just will I have seen that first hand but your conversion rate will be through the roof.

Re: Ask HN: How to provide a free trial without being abused?

#16

Post by Kaze404 »

pid-1 wrote: post #3

- trigger warning - Allow the whole onboarding process to be done without a CC, don't even mention that. But when a user is doing their first deploy, tell them they need a CC to complete this step. Thanks to the sunken cost fallacy, users will be more likely to proceed.

Sounds like a great way to make me sign up with your competitor

Re: Ask HN: How to provide a free trial without being abused?

#17

Post by anatolinicolae »

cube00 wrote: post #5

Limit their outgoing connections until they provide a CC number. Most software can be initially tested without needing to connect to the wider internet. Throw in plenty of /examples directories for the different applications you offer. You could provide some approved outgoing connections to trusted plugin/package repos. If you want to get stricter only allow incoming connections from the trial user's IP to stop them…

> If you want to get stricter only allow incoming connections from the trial user's IP to stop them hosting scam landing pages.

This could actually be the easiest way to deal with it. You can technically remove the block via system firewall, but I guess the abuse is only for cloud VMs that Elest.io provides and not the BYOVM ones, so you can use provider firewall rules to enforce the limit.

Re: Ask HN: How to provide a free trial without being abused?

#18

Post by viraptor »

nojito wrote: post #11
humanistbot wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a dark pattern and will infuriate both your abusers and legitimate users.

Not really. All the big SAAS offerings utilize this pattern. It’s one of the best ways to get a nice core group of dedicated users that will help you iterate.

Yes they do. They use the dark patterns. That doesn't make them good.

Re: Ask HN: How to provide a free trial without being abused?

#19

Post by [deleted] »

cube00 wrote: post #5

Limit their outgoing connections until they provide a CC number. Most software can be initially tested without needing to connect to the wider internet. Throw in plenty of /examples directories for the different applications you offer. You could provide some approved outgoing connections to trusted plugin/package repos. If you want to get stricter only allow incoming connections from the trial user's IP to stop them…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How to provide a free trial without being abused?

#20

Post by js4ever »

cube00 wrote: post #5

Limit their outgoing connections until they provide a CC number. Most software can be initially tested without needing to connect to the wider internet. Throw in plenty of /examples directories for the different applications you offer. You could provide some approved outgoing connections to trusted plugin/package repos. If you want to get stricter only allow incoming connections from the trial user's IP to stop them…

Very good ideas thanks!
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