Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Global music market grew by 18.5% in 2021, driven by paid subscription streaming

ifpi.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 192 posts

Re: Global music market grew by 18.5% in 2021, driven by paid subscription streaming

#151

Post by whiddershins »

bryans wrote: post #110
skinnymuch wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If things in life were directly proportional to effort and similar things. We’d be living in a meritocracy. Society doesn’t work that way. There are most certainly people who failed while putting in more and better effort than others who succeeded.

No, there are people who put more effort toward the wrong things, and that's why they didn't find the same success. The best songwriter in the world could be incredibly unsuccessful if they don't have any concept of how to market themselves properly, so sitting in their studio practicing guitar all day is technically effort, but it isn't doing anything to progress their career. That's exactly why most musicians fail.…

I have seen several real life examples who have.

Re: Global music market grew by 18.5% in 2021, driven by paid subscription streaming

#152

Post by bryans »

majani wrote: post #149
bryans wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I have tons of evidence for this, and for why all of your claims have no foundation. Allow me to provide one example of the hundreds that I personally know of or worked with (which is a tiny fraction of the numbers finding success independently). In late 2020, a band called Sub-Radio had a couple thousand followers on each social media platform and around ~15k monthly listeners on Spotify, and this was after man…

The way I see it, there is a small window of opportunity for organic growth on TikTok right now, but very soon it will become pay to play. That's the playbook for every social site out there: leave everything free during the growth days, after growth starts peaking, start charging for every valuable thing on the site.

I was mistakenly telling people the "small window" for TikTok was closing over a year ago, but it's still open wide enough to fit a 747 through it. TikTok's algorithm, in particular, is actually extremely friendly toward user content, and that means there will always be room for organic growth on the platform, as is still true for every platform (even the dead ones like Facebook).

Re: Global music market grew by 18.5% in 2021, driven by paid subscription streaming

#153

Post by hef19898 »

bryans wrote: post #37
basisword wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any evidence of this? People have been saying labels are irrelevant for a decade or two at least now. It's never true. To succeed you need to get noticed and for that you need a marketing budget and the labels provide that. Artists can get much further than before but going viral on TikTok is not a viable career strategy for most artists.

Yes, I have tons of evidence for this, and for why all of your claims have no foundation. Allow me to provide one example of the hundreds that I personally know of or worked with (which is a tiny fraction of the numbers finding success independently). In late 2020, a band called Sub-Radio had a couple thousand followers on each social media platform and around ~15k monthly listeners on Spotify, and this was after man…

Curious question, if streaming services reach the point where they enable indy artists to actually become super stars (using TikTok for marketing), doesn't that move the role, and power, from label to those streaming services and social media (for marketing)?

Re: Global music market grew by 18.5% in 2021, driven by paid subscription streaming

#154

Post by bryans »

whiddershins wrote: post #151
bryans wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there are people who put more effort toward the wrong things, and that's why they didn't find the same success. The best songwriter in the world could be incredibly unsuccessful if they don't have any concept of how to market themselves properly, so sitting in their studio practicing guitar all day is technically effort, but it isn't doing anything to progress their career. That's exactly why most musicians fail.…

I have seen several real life examples who have.

Then I would question what material they were learning, or how much effort they actually expended. I've watched even the worst songwriters and performers find success by grinding away at the right stones, so "I know a guy who tried Facebook ads and it didn't work" doesn't mean anything.

Re: Global music market grew by 18.5% in 2021, driven by paid subscription streaming

#155

Post by siquick »

bryans wrote: post #37
basisword wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any evidence of this? People have been saying labels are irrelevant for a decade or two at least now. It's never true. To succeed you need to get noticed and for that you need a marketing budget and the labels provide that. Artists can get much further than before but going viral on TikTok is not a viable career strategy for most artists.

Yes, I have tons of evidence for this, and for why all of your claims have no foundation. Allow me to provide one example of the hundreds that I personally know of or worked with (which is a tiny fraction of the numbers finding success independently). In late 2020, a band called Sub-Radio had a couple thousand followers on each social media platform and around ~15k monthly listeners on Spotify, and this was after man…

150k streams p/month is absolutely nothing compared to the artists that the major labels are interested in.

Record labels that the likes of “Sub-Radio” are suited to have always be and will continue to act as taste makers and curators, and not large money making organisations (and for the better). Even the large indies like Sub Pop, Stones Throw, and K7 operate in completely different seperate financial and reach realms than Universal, Warner and the like.

If someone becomes “Tik Tok famous” overnight then they’re likely to seek management and guess who that manager is most likely to be aligned to? Major labels aren’t going anywhere.

Re: Global music market grew by 18.5% in 2021, driven by paid subscription streaming

#156

Post by majani »

KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #44
bryans wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I have tons of evidence for this, and for why all of your claims have no foundation. Allow me to provide one example of the hundreds that I personally know of or worked with (which is a tiny fraction of the numbers finding success independently). In late 2020, a band called Sub-Radio had a couple thousand followers on each social media platform and around ~15k monthly listeners on Spotify, and this was after man…

Same with software, books and manga and video games I think. The only digitalized industry where indies still don't really have a place is tv/movies

YouTubers are now bigger than TV stars by every conceivable metric

Re: Global music market grew by 18.5% in 2021, driven by paid subscription streaming

#157

Post by bryans »

hnhg wrote: post #148
bryans wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're absolutely correct about the dark side, and I would never want to minimize the complexity or sheer effort required to self-manage a music project. Like any startup, it is not easy and you are wholly responsible for everything that happens -- including any mistakes, of which they will likely be many. This is far too daunting for some people, and understandably so, particularly when they just want to "make some…

Would be interesting to get a breakdown of your work by genre and so on. It's super interesting. Have you considered writing content about this (that doesn't give away your business)? [Alternatively, how would I begin to start learning about this?]

I keep meaning to start writing or creating videos, but at the end of the day, there are already a bunch of people producing that content and doing it very well. I will write a longer piece eventually about some particular topics that I think are overlooked or not understood, but I'd much rather stick to the Zoom calls where I actually get to meet people and answers questions and offer advice specific to their situation -- it's a very rewarding experience to watch people go from being confused about a topic, to understanding it, and even being excited or motivated by it.

As for learning, YouTube is your best friend. There's a mountain of music business content on there, and most of it is very accurate to reality.

https://www.youtube.com/c/berkleemusic/videos

https://www.youtube.com/c/MusicBiz/videos

https://www.youtube.com/c/IndieMusicAcademy/videos

Re: Global music market grew by 18.5% in 2021, driven by paid subscription streaming

#158

Post by dehrmann »

bryans wrote: post #15

The self-congratulatory nature of the article and quotes actually betray a self-reassurance, because in reality, record labels are rapidly becoming irrelevant. They're scrambling to figure out how they fit into the TikTok era, where artists no longer require years of financial incubation to succeed. The music industry is growing because independent musicians are finally figuring out how to navigate it without any nee…

I'm less concerned with artists bypassing record labels because "artists already get enough promotional value out of social media" (and they actually might if they're full-time marketers and part-time artists). If I were a label, I'd be worried that the death of radio and rise of personalization kills the demand for professionally written, produced, and recorded tracks, eventually replacing them with ephemeral, low-value TikTok videos. How are you going to find out about that latest Dua Lipa single if you're not hearing it anywhere? And why would you care?

Labels sell polished, high-value tracks to listeners, marketing services to artists, and to pay for this, they need a large market, broad appeal, and residual revenue. That's just not a match for TikTok. It's not that they're being disintermediated, it's that there isn't any value left for a middleman with short-lived, low-value niche products.

Re: Global music market grew by 18.5% in 2021, driven by paid subscription streaming

#159

Post by dna_polymerase »

siquick wrote: post #155
bryans wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I have tons of evidence for this, and for why all of your claims have no foundation. Allow me to provide one example of the hundreds that I personally know of or worked with (which is a tiny fraction of the numbers finding success independently). In late 2020, a band called Sub-Radio had a couple thousand followers on each social media platform and around ~15k monthly listeners on Spotify, and this was after man…

150k streams p/month is absolutely nothing compared to the artists that the major labels are interested in. Record labels that the likes of “Sub-Radio” are suited to have always be and will continue to act as taste makers and curators, and not large money making organisations (and for the better). Even the large indies like Sub Pop, Stones Throw, and K7 operate in completely different seperate financial and reach rea…

> If someone becomes “Tik Tok famous” overnight then they’re likely to seek management and guess who that manager is most likely to be aligned to? Major labels aren’t going anywhere.

This is the important thing for labels to focus on in the future. The actual logistics around the physical world is something you cannot handle if you are also seeking time to record new music and practice. On the web however things are getting easier for everyone and the value proposition of record labels vanishes.

Re: Global music market grew by 18.5% in 2021, driven by paid subscription streaming

#160

Post by circlefavshape »

tsimionescu wrote: post #142
skinnymuch wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> countless new YouTube channels finding success in the same markets This is seeing the survivors. Even if there are 100 new big YouTube channels per year for some saturated niche. That number might practically speaking basically mean zero if 10 million people every year earnestly try to succeed in that niche. The hit rate on this example is 1 in 100K.

Both can be true. The question wasn't if every artist can make it - it's not like small artists get rich off record labels. The question was whether any artist can become a massive success without a record label. 10 years ago this didn't even make sense to ask. Today, I can almost believe it.

10 years ago Macklemore did exactly that. I'm not aware of anyone repeating the feat since
Post reply on HN