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Ask HN: Who operates at scale without containers?

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Re: Ask HN: Who operates at scale without containers?

#441

Post by jesterson »

config_yml wrote: post #385
jesterson wrote: post #379

CTO at e-commerce. Operating full-chain of e-commerce from customer to supplier, including backends for planning, support, marketing, operation etc. Thousands of orders daily, millions of visitors on webfront. Not a single container. Don't see any possible use or benefits of it whatsoever. It's trendy, cool, but if you just want to get things done, avoid mess in your infrastructure and avoid accumulation of tech debt…

So what does your technology stack look like?

It's quite diverse given few M&A along the way. To put it simply, a number of VMs scattered across different providers, hosting services. Services range from load balancers (haproxy), frontend/backend endpoint servers (nginx, varnish), code (PHP, RoR, etc),CDN (nginx), database (MariaDB, PostgreSQL), ELK... Icinga for monitoring everything, Grafana to see trends and big picture. Tableau, Dataiku for BA.

Re: Ask HN: Who operates at scale without containers?

#442

Post by mhitza »

efreak wrote: post #432
wanderr wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh man, I should write a blog post about that, as I built that feature myself. It was meant to be a stopgap until we could get some real matchine learning in there, but nothing else we tried did as well. First, for efficiency all recommendations were artist to artist,nl not song to song. That works well for a lot of genres but is pretty bad for others. We started with a free DB of artist similarities, I don't remembe…

I'm not aware of an MB similar artist database. I'm guessing you used music map[0], it's the only free database I know of for similar artists that doesn't require scraping. [0]: https://www.music-map.com/

Around that time freebase was still a thing, and dbpedia/wikipedia could also be used to sample relationships.

Re: Ask HN: Who operates at scale without containers?

#443

Post by fougerejo »

wanderr wrote: post #426
mhitza wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a great service. I'd be curious if you could go into details how the radio feature worked back then, because I found myself receiving worse suggestions when I used similar features in Spotify/Google Play Music.

Oh man, I should write a blog post about that, as I built that feature myself. It was meant to be a stopgap until we could get some real matchine learning in there, but nothing else we tried did as well. First, for efficiency all recommendations were artist to artist,nl not song to song. That works well for a lot of genres but is pretty bad for others. We started with a free DB of artist similarities, I don't remembe…

I want to salute you for the Grooveshark recommendation engine. To this day, that's THE feature that I used a LOT on Grooveshark (hours & hours), and that I'm frustrated about in Spotify. You did an amazing job on this one.

Re: Ask HN: Who operates at scale without containers?

#444

Post by dilyevsky »

hinkley wrote: post #440
dilyevsky wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, the problem is not that RUN is Turing Complete the problem is that it’s non-hermetic.

If it's Turing Complete you can't prove that it's hermetic. You can't even prove if it'll ever finish running (halting problem). Maybe someday someone will invent a sort of EBPF for containers, but usually the first batch of RUN commands and the last are calling package managers, and in between you're doing things like creating users and setting permissions using common unix shell commands, which have the same proble…

> If it's Turing Complete you can't prove that it's hermetic

Turing Machine model doesn’t apply to i/o so it is a meaningless statement.

Bazel and Nix achieve this by sandboxing i/o no turing incompleteness needed (tho bazel is still purposely non-tc but for totally different reason than hermeticity)

Re: Ask HN: Who operates at scale without containers?

#445

Post by nijave »

evanelias wrote: post #410
nijave wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably a bad example, but the sentiment was: encapsulating years of DBA knowledge and complex enterprise architectures in generic k8s abstractions can be incredibly difficult. For instance, you put a RDBMS in a StatefulSet. You figure out how to replicate between pods. Now a piece of hardware fails and a replica needs rebuilt--what does that? So you add an operator into the mix. What happens if bin logs have been p…

Oh yes to be clear I definitely agree with the overall sentiment. I just wouldn't ever cite circular replication as an example. Basically saying "it's hard to do [inherently flawed terrible thing] on k8s!" just detracts from the argument :) fwiw my team eventually automated pretty much "everything" for Facebook's database fleet, and it was hundreds of thousands of lines of custom automation code (non-k8s), many years…

MariaDB uses a closed source operator for their SkySQL product (it's all on Kubernetes). Here's the most recent info I could find http://www.odbms.org/2019/06/on-mariadb-kubernetes-operator-...

(I used to work there)

Re: Ask HN: Who operates at scale without containers?

#446

Post by mountainriver »

JeremyNT wrote: post #407
mountainriver wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes you can run DBs on kube now, much of people thinking this isn’t good comes from years back when it wasn’t

Does it buy you much though? The big issue with databases is storage, and you need local storage for optimal performance. You can ask k8s for a persistent volume on local storage, but at this point you have to treat that pod exactly the same way you'd treat a snowflake database server, because the local storage is what ultimately matters. You can replicate to other pods with their own persistent volumes, but the repl…

pods can share a persistent volume in ReadWriteMany mode
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