Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout • Hacker News Board

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#461

Post by wolverine876 » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 3:12 AM UTC

gruez wrote: post #443

greiskul wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> only so many houses (land) available Here is a radical idea. Build more houses. Maybe put them on top of each other so they don't have to be so far away from jobs. American love complaining about the inefficiencies of centrally planned economies, but then make one of the most important aspects of the economy, where people can live and work, into a entirely centralized way of doing.

>Here is a radical idea. Build more houses. Maybe put them on top of each other so they don't have to be so far away from jobs. No disagreement here. >American love complaining about the inefficiencies of centrally planned economies, but then make one of the most important aspects of the economy, where people can live and work, into a entirely centralized way of doing. Are they really centralized? NIMBYs aren't some…

I wouldn't assume they are grassroots. Grassroots efforts are often organized by someone who benefits. Follow the money!

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#462

Post by ALittleLight » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 3:15 AM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #396

ALittleLight wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, so you wouldn't hire anyone who produces less than minimum wage. What if a teen wants to learn about your profession and is willing to work, but wouldn't really contribute or produce that much? If there was no exception to hiring people who are financial dependents you wouldn't be able to hire on such a person for a small rate. You'd either have to overpay, discouraging you from hiring them, or not hire them be…

I do that too. For college students some start earning credits before moving to a paid intern position. In my business, interns are super valuable. We pay $20-25/hr depending on skill.

Odd - in your previous comment you say you pay people based on what they produce. Here you seem to be saying you pay people more than what they produce - I'm reading "I do that too" as a response to my point about hiring people who produce less than a large minimum wage in value.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#463

Post by wave_function » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 3:20 AM UTC

willcipriano wrote: post #273

jasonhansel wrote: post #91

At least he was being honest. I think that many corporate executives have thoughts along these lines: they want employees to be so desperate that they'll accept low wages and bad working conditions. That is, of course, why they tend to campaign against e.g. minimum wages, food stamps, and reforms that would make it easier to unionize. The only difference is that other execs have the good sense not to put such thought…

People like this love food stamps. They are quite happy to have the taxpayer feed their workers for them. Many years ago I applied to work at Kmart. The wages were lower than I could get elsewhere so I pass and the manager offers to go over "the benefits", he tells me that I can get healthcare (Medicaid) and money towards groceries (Food stamps) as well as rent assistance (another government program). They had system…

According to this guy’s (possible wrong) view of market elasticity.

More food stamps-> each person work more hours to survive-> more labor supply-> lower wages.

(EDIT) Which would make him not like food stamps.

There are other effects of food stamps, but in this guys view, that’s the dominant term. Maybe he’d like it for his own employees, but certainly not for the market as a whole. I guess it’s the opposite of “restaurants have to pay people more to compete with coronabucks” narrative that started a year or two back.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#464

Post by adolph » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 3:23 AM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #423

caddemon wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 people sharing a 1 bedroom is a pretty low bar, I think minimum wage should afford someone their own bedroom. However I do often see people claiming no one should have to have any sort of roommates, even if they are a single minimum wage earner trying to support a spouse and children. I agree with you in that I don't understand why having to share a kitchen or living room is such an issue.

The problem is always finding good roommates who aren’t secretly murder hobos. Sharing can work, but it seems to be getting harder and harder as we have to rely more and more on close vetting via friends and family.

> The problem is always finding good roommates who aren’t secretly murder hobos.

As in a roommate who murders hobos or who is a hobo that murders? If a hobo becomes a roommate, are they too stationary to still be a hobo?

A hobo is a migrant worker in the United States. Hoboes, tramps and bums are generally regarded as related, but distinct: A hobo travels and is willing to work; a tramp travels, but avoids work if possible; and a bum neither travels nor works.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobo

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#465

Post by adolph » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 3:33 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #444

glitchc wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) UBI is not UBI unless everyone gets it. 2) Any income surplus generated by UBI is rapidly consumed by middle people and rent-seekers. That’s how we get inflation.

> Any income surplus generated by UBI Typical UBI proposals are funded, e.g., by additional progressive taxes, and so no actual income surplus is generated (in a first-order analysis), income is redistributed, compressing distribution.

> funded, e.g., by additional progressive taxes

At which point the proposal becomes a welfare system that pointlessly disburses and claws-back cash.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#466

Post by sokoloff » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 3:36 AM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #455

grapeskin wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know people living in those famously cheap Midwest areas people online always propose as the obvious solution to avoid high rents. Rents even in nowhere areas have blown up recently. And remote work really won’t change rents much for normal people. People want to live where their family and friends are, where some good restaurants are, where some good weekend activities are, where some nice nature is an hour or two…

> Rents even in nowhere areas have blown up recently. Home owners are snapping up rentals to prepare to sell their property at market peak.

In a rising rates environment, house sale prices tend to fall (or rise much more slowly at best).

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#467

Post by wave_function » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 3:37 AM UTC

gruez wrote: post #196

rpmisms wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Henry Ford, capitalist extraordinaire, famously paid his workers $5 a day, double the average automaker's wage at the time. This extracted maximum value from said labor.

I know the popular story is that: 1. pay workers extra (ie. above the market rate) 2. workers are richer now 3. they use that money to buy the stuff you make 4. ??? 5. profit! Has this actually been studied empirically? If you had to choose between paying your workers $1000 more and pocketing it, surely the latter option is the better one? Sure, they might use some of that money to buy your product, but they're not g…

Henry Ford paid his workers more to reduce turnover, not so they could afford his cars.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/03/04/the-stor...

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#468

Post by sokoloff » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 3:41 AM UTC

Bermion wrote: post #193

jpcfl wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Otherwise it sounds like you don't think anyone should be able to live anywhere reasonable without roommates? I think your confusing "should be able to" with "shall be able to, enforceable by law". I don't expect that a 15 year old working his first job as a fry cook at an Arby's should be compensated enough that he can afford to live on his own. In fact, that could be dangerously disincentivizing his hard work towa…

Why shouldn't someone working as a fry cook be able to live on his salary? It's not dangerous to have a system where not everyone needs a university degree to earn a living.

He should be able to live on that salary, no argument. Being able to live alone in a studio or with roommates in a 3BR is the way loads of 20-somethings have lived for many decades.

He should be able to live; that doesn’t (for me) extend to “rent the average 1BR apartment for less than 35% of his gross pay, by law”.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#469

Post by eek2121 » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 3:42 AM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #3

I wonder what the USA would look like if minimum wage was defined as; two people being able to afford a 1 bedroom apartment within a 1 hour drive without traffic. The static (both in the nominal and inflation adjusted sense) for minimum wage doesn't make sense imo. Minimum wage should be tied to some level of living (not necessarily a great living, but something ) This guy smh

It wouldn't fix things if that is what you are wondering. You MIGHT get away with 1 person with a 1-bedroom apartment. However, regarding gas prices, contrary to popular belief, the US does not have any permanent control at all over gas prices. They COULD have control over gas prices, however that would require all parties to pass a law to prohibit speculations (aka "futures") on oil pricing. There are too many hands in the pot for that to happen. Note that this isn't an issue unique to the US. Not a single country in the world has a law like this.

That being said, I 100% agree with minimum wage being 3x the median cost of a 1-bedroom apartment for 1 person working 20 hours a week. Why 20 hours a week? Companies LOVE to only give folks part time hours. Of course, in my area that equates to $42/hour, however, note that even at 40 hours a week you are looking at $21/hour. Also, why 3x? When you apply for a mortgage OR sign a lease you typically need to earn 3x the housing cost in order to qualify. Mortgage companies and landlords alike typically want to see housing take less than 33% of your pretax income.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#470

Post by mrtesthah » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 4:01 AM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #3

I wonder what the USA would look like if minimum wage was defined as; two people being able to afford a 1 bedroom apartment within a 1 hour drive without traffic. The static (both in the nominal and inflation adjusted sense) for minimum wage doesn't make sense imo. Minimum wage should be tied to some level of living (not necessarily a great living, but something ) This guy smh

I wonder what the USA would look like if the cost and supply of 1 bedroom apartment were guaranteed in order to ensure affordability by those making minimum wage.

In other words: why should landlords be allowed to capture the majority of value created by society? There are plenty of examples of successful affordable housing -- case in point, Vienna:

https://thetyee.ca/Solutions/2018/06/06/Vienna-Housing-Affor...