President Obama on Steve Jobs: "He Changed the Way Each of Us Sees the World" • Hacker News Board

Re: President Obama on Steve Jobs: "He Changed the Way Each of Us Sees the World"

#41

Post by anactofgod » Thu, Oct 06, 2011, 9:30 AM UTC

rphlx wrote: post #10

coderdude wrote: post #2

You know you're a big deal when the president of the United States makes a statement about your death just hours after the news breaks.

It saddens me that the engineers and workers who actually designed and built the stuff will die unknown. Just reinforces that fame, popularity, charisma, self-promotion, wealth, and the ability to "manage" trump deep technical abilities.

This is an appropriate topic for HN, since it has to do with roles & responsibilities w/i a company. So, let's try to correct some misconceptions.

Steve Jobs was the CEO of Apple. And...

“A CEO does only three things. Sets the overall vision and strategy of the company and communicates it to all stakeholders. Recruits, hires, and retains the very best talent for the company. Makes sure there is always enough cash in the bank.” (from Fred Wilson, Venture Capitalist icon, requoting something he was taught early in his professional career)

Jobs showed that he was able to do all three of these things extremely well, arguably better any other CEO of our time. He did communicate a vision and strategy [#1], and he used that vision and strategy to recruit the very best talent for Apple [#2], people better than Jobs himself was at getting done what needed to be done (i.e., the people you lament "will die unknown"). His ability to do both those things - and to make sure that everyone performed and delivered in line with the vision [#!, again] - is why Apple is projected to have $90+BILLION in cash reserves at the end of the year [#3], climbed from $10/share to $400/share, and is the highest valued tech company in the world.

Remember, too that history reinforces that technical ability minus a clear vision and strong leadership doesn't produce Mac OS X/iOS, MacBook Airs, iPods, iPhones or iPads. They produce Pink/Taligent, 20th Anniversary Macs, Newtons, MacTVs and Pippins. And a company that loses its leadership position, is valued at $10/share, and comes within sight of bankruptcy.

Re: President Obama on Steve Jobs: "He Changed the Way Each of Us Sees the World"

#42

Post by partition » Thu, Oct 06, 2011, 9:42 AM UTC

rphlx wrote: post #10

coderdude wrote: post #2

You know you're a big deal when the president of the United States makes a statement about your death just hours after the news breaks.

It saddens me that the engineers and workers who actually designed and built the stuff will die unknown. Just reinforces that fame, popularity, charisma, self-promotion, wealth, and the ability to "manage" trump deep technical abilities.

I agree that this is suboptimal. But it's true that you need both business and technical skills to get something out the door competently. And for these engineers and workers, the feeling of fulfillment that they have working for Steve is real and satisfies what I believe to be an actual human need: to feel competent and useful.

I just wish there was some other way to go about things than for, basically, impressionable technical types to be manipulated into doing work for narcissists.

Maybe the problem is, again, education. School generally doesn't prepare you to be a good salesman, which is unfortunate because that's the only kind of skill you need to actually get ahead in the real world.

Re: President Obama on Steve Jobs: "He Changed the Way Each of Us Sees the World"

#43

Post by partition » Thu, Oct 06, 2011, 9:48 AM UTC

evgen wrote: post #13

rphlx wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It saddens me that the engineers and workers who actually designed and built the stuff will die unknown. Just reinforces that fame, popularity, charisma, self-promotion, wealth, and the ability to "manage" trump deep technical abilities.

Without the assistance of a person (or people) with all of those other characteristics, deep technical abilities accomplish nothing. If it were not for Steve the engineers and workers who actually designed and built the stuff would still have died unknown and they would have also probably died without having anything of significance to point to and say "I helped create that."

I think what might be more problematic is our systemic bias toward attributing the "credit" (monetary and social credit) to any significant work to one person. This just causes pretty much any collaborative work that is not between "pure" friends to devolve into resentment.

I think this has deep roots in American individualistic philosophy, and it's an example of how damaging it can be.

Re: President Obama on Steve Jobs: "He Changed the Way Each of Us Sees the World"

#44

Post by nupark2 » Thu, Oct 06, 2011, 11:44 AM UTC

rphlx wrote: post #10

coderdude wrote: post #2

You know you're a big deal when the president of the United States makes a statement about your death just hours after the news breaks.

It saddens me that the engineers and workers who actually designed and built the stuff will die unknown. Just reinforces that fame, popularity, charisma, self-promotion, wealth, and the ability to "manage" trump deep technical abilities.

As one of those former engineers at Apple, I can say definitively that Steve deserves it. Without him, we'd never have had the canvas on which to paint.

He made our contributions possible.

Re: President Obama on Steve Jobs: "He Changed the Way Each of Us Sees the World"

#45

Post by ericHosick » Thu, Oct 06, 2011, 12:03 PM UTC

epo wrote: post #39

rphlx wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think giving virtually all of the credit, wealth and social standing to the "visionary" is a massive error which shafts a lot of people, who are even more rare, unique and talented than Steve Jobs. He deserves a lot of credit to be sure, but it's almost insulting to say that engineers couldn't design a phone on their own.

Without a Jobs, they wouldn't be given the opportunity nor would they be kept in focus to finish the job. As someone who avoided the management track it gives me no pleasure to say this but good leaders are necessary because they are the catalyst, engineers are a dime a dozen.

Great leaders are as common as great engineers.

Re: President Obama on Steve Jobs: "He Changed the Way Each of Us Sees the World"

#46

Post by danssig » Thu, Oct 06, 2011, 1:01 PM UTC

maratd wrote: post #21

Mr. Jobs was an amazing person. I sincerely hope the President is mourning his loss. Unfortunately, his prior statements make me wonder whether he truly understood what Mr. Jobs added to our culture through the inventions he helped pioneer. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/7...

Is the Telegraph one of those rags that tries to be controversial just to get views? I was (before today) under the impression that they were a reputable paper but they also had to take some shots at Jobs' personal live in his Obituary. What Steve did in his personal life is none of our business. Maybe he did treat someone in his life poorly. That might mean I wouldn't have wanted to be his personal friend, but it doesn't change the fact that Steve literally changed the world.

Re: President Obama on Steve Jobs: "He Changed the Way Each of Us Sees the World"

#47

Post by gospelwut » Thu, Oct 06, 2011, 2:37 PM UTC

rphlx wrote: post #10

coderdude wrote: post #2

You know you're a big deal when the president of the United States makes a statement about your death just hours after the news breaks.

It saddens me that the engineers and workers who actually designed and built the stuff will die unknown. Just reinforces that fame, popularity, charisma, self-promotion, wealth, and the ability to "manage" trump deep technical abilities.

I'm not a Mac person myself, but I do respect their design philosophy in the sense you don't have to do wild new things -- just standard things really well. So, by proxy I respect their engineers quite a bit. My only beef, really, was with their marketing department and some of their draconian business decisions.

Re: President Obama on Steve Jobs: "He Changed the Way Each of Us Sees the World"

#48

Post by tychobrahe » Thu, Oct 06, 2011, 2:50 PM UTC

kamechan wrote: post #12

rphlx wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It saddens me that the engineers and workers who actually designed and built the stuff will die unknown. Just reinforces that fame, popularity, charisma, self-promotion, wealth, and the ability to "manage" trump deep technical abilities.

https://twitter.com/cperciva/status/121744770480615425 a retweet (not me). but, it struck a chord with me.

Why do we care so much about genius scientists but dismiss genius dilletantes?

Also, why do we have to dillute our opinion on people and reduce them to the stereotypes? Is it something we do just to feel better?

Saying that Steve Jobs was just a salesman is as incorrect as saying that Edsger Dijkstra was just an arrogant man. I'm sorry, but both were MUCH more than that.

Re: President Obama on Steve Jobs: "He Changed the Way Each of Us Sees the World"

#49

Post by hackinthebochs » Thu, Oct 06, 2011, 3:03 PM UTC

Cushman wrote: post #7

r0s wrote: post #6

That's a bit hyperbolic.

No it isn't. It's 100% true. If we can't honestly appreciate the incredible magnitude of the effect this man had on our world today of all days, when will we be able to?

I'm gonna have to agree and say that the hyperbole about what this man accomplished is over-the-top. He didn't change the world in any meaningful way. He made great products, and that's about as far as his influence extends to the world.

The guy who invented the toilet "changed the world". Mark Zuckerburg has changed the world far more than Steve Jobs. Sometimes people need a reality check.

Re: President Obama on Steve Jobs: "He Changed the Way Each of Us Sees the World"

#50

Post by microtherion » Thu, Oct 06, 2011, 3:43 PM UTC

lukifer wrote: post #29

evgen wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without the assistance of a person (or people) with all of those other characteristics, deep technical abilities accomplish nothing. If it were not for Steve the engineers and workers who actually designed and built the stuff would still have died unknown and they would have also probably died without having anything of significance to point to and say "I helped create that."

Steve gave massive credit to the talent and sweat of Apple's engineers and designers in nearly every keynote. He was as humble as you could expect of a CEO.

Yes, he did thank the engineers and designers in his keynotes – COLLECTIVELY. However, he also specifically abolished the previous practice of naming all software engineers involved in OS releases.

Admittedly, there were plausible reasons given for this, but I felt that ultimately, the reason why Pixar gives personal credit to their movie contributors, while Apple does not do the same for its engineers, is that our industry is not unionized.