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Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

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Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#491

Post by shadowgovt »

Double_a_92 wrote: post #489
shadowgovt wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What HN does is less obtrusive Agree. I often have to click around to figure out why the black bar has shown up. > less likely to stoke heated division amongst its users This is interesting. Why does #BlackLivesMatter stoke heated division among HN users? And what does that say about the community that has been built here? > and more relevant to the content of the site I'm sure I don't agree. As the world moves fur…

> Why does #BlackLivesMatter stoke heated division among HN users? Simply because it is a political issue, on which people might have different opinions. And since that specific issue is not related to tech at all, it just causes conflict without any benefit. While honoring the death of some generally respected figure in our field is hopefully less controversial and more informative.

> And since that specific issue is not related to tech at all

Black Lives Matter is heavily interwoven with the sousveillance effect... As cameras have moved from a luxury to a ubiquity, control of the narrative of how policing works has fallen out of the hands of the people who do it. It doesn't matter why multiple black men and women were shot to death... People have seen it happen, and they feel in their guts it was wrong. It's hard to get to that gut-level effect without visual stimulus; people have been writing for decades about the negative effects of violent-response-authorized policing.

Now that we know this, how will things change? Will people try to make the cameras go away, will procedures change to account for everyone having a camera, will we all adapt to being seen more often in public? And at present people generally know when they're being filmed... What of the near future, where the tech to film something could be attached to a drone flying too high or too quietly to see?

It's very, very hard to slice a clean cut between technology and its effect on societies.

https://www.wtkr.com/news/technologys-role-in-the-black-live...

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#492

Post by Traster »

Aperocky wrote: post #218
Traster wrote: post #204

>The “weaponization of open source” as Gerald Benischke calls it in his March 16 blog post is indiscriminate, and the collateral damage it causes damages the work of developers and operators solely because they have a Russia-assigned IP address. It harms peacemakers as much as the warmongers—even ethical hackers using a VPN to work against the invasion might become collateral damage. I think this is a weirdly bad arg…

> same way that hundreds of western countries have pulled their businesses out of China. First of all, there aren't 100s of western countries...

Sorry, meant companies not countries.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#493

Post by [deleted] »

dwaltrip wrote: post #479
blueflow wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of the signalling achieves anything. Its annoying, the signalling people really stand out. Seeing them doing the "Notice me, I'm standing for the right thing, im a good person!"-move makes me cringe. I wish they would stop.

How do you know that it achieves nothing? Genuinely curious.

[deleted]

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#494

Post by ailef »

zucker42 wrote: post #352
ziml77 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of this is hate against the citizens. No one wants to hurt the innocent people in Russia. But pulling out of Russia is about the only thing that anyone can do to slow the flow of money that will be used to fund the invasion of Ukraine. The optimal thing would be to push the Russians out of Ukraine with military force, though that is also going to leave many dead. Just because they're soldiers doesn't mean they d…

> No one wants to hurt the innocent people in Russia. The actions of the node-ipc maintainer's seem to provide evidence against this assertion.

And it's also well known that innocent people are those who eventually end up paying the highest price for the sanctions.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#495

Post by imiric »

qsdf38100 wrote: post #474
jaldhar wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The banner wavers have moved on to the next trendy thing and people are still getting killed. What was achieved by annoying HNers?

You’re at war. Maybe you don’t realize it because you can still go on with your life as if nothing was happening. It’s not a trendy thing, it won’t go away because of some random trendy thing. HNers annoyance couldn’t be more irrelevant. And people are still getting killed because the world has decided that this war , as bad as it is, shouldn’t interfere with business too much. People are still getting killed because…

So will plastering banners all over the internet end the war? How is it raising awareness exactly? And why aren't we raising awareness about thousands of other political, social and economic issues around the world that actually need awareness, rather than pretending to do so about the most popular issue of the day?

Politics doesn't belong in software. Some software can be political, sure, but the only purpose of these banners is good PR and virtue signalling.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#496

Post by whimsicalism »

geoka9 wrote: post #473
whimsicalism wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All this comment shows to me is you knew very little about Syria & Iraq. The cultural & population centers of Syria were never taken by ISIS and Damascus prior to 2011 would not have felt as "hellhole"-esque as I think you are imagining. > turning from the world of the strongman and toward Europe and modern freedoms Towards Europe, certainly, but also towards nationalism - undoubtedly. It is not a "modern freedom" to…

> to ban minority languages from schools Please, it's not a ban. The relevant law only applies to state-funded schools and makes sure that students who don't speak Ukrainian gradually learn it over the years and start using it in school: _ https://ukrainian-studies.ca/2020/08/01/ukraines-russian-lan... If Ukraine hasn't been the target of Russian territorial expansionism, we could argue that this law is overreaching.…

> Please, it's not a ban. The relevant law only applies to state-funded schools and makes sure that students who don't speak Ukrainian gradually learn it over the years and start using it in school:

Really? Reading your source it seems that it explicitly states "Ukrainian as the only means of instruction in schools after the primary division." Saying that this only applies to "state-funded schools" may be true, but you're papering over the fact that your own source indicates that fewer than 1% of students attend non-public schools.

From your own source:

> The Law determines three patterns for Ukrainian-language instruction in secondary schools of Ukraine. The first concerns indigenous peoples such as the Crimean Tatars, who have the right to be educated in their own language, with Ukrainian taught as a separate subject, at any school stage. The second pattern addresses Ukraine’s national minorities whose languages are official languages of the EU. The primary school division is available for them in their minority language (with Ukrainian as a separate subject), while higher divisions see a graduated expansion of Ukrainian-language instruction—from twenty percent in fifth year to forty percent in ninth year of middle (junior high) school and to sixty percent of all subjects during the three years of high school. The third pattern applies to “other minorities,” i.e., Russians and Russian-speaking Ukrainians who attend Russian-language secondary schools. For them, Ukrainian-language instruction should be at a minimum of eighty percent in both middle and high schools, with the opportunity to have Russian taught as a subject or elective. The Law also clearly states that these provisions apply to state-funded schools only and entitles all private schools to a free choice of their language of instruction; nevertheless, private schools must teach the Ukrainian language and ensure that their students acquire the fluency standard defined by the state.

Seems from reading this that Russian is specifically targeted and proscribed from being taught in schools. Keep in mind there are entire regions of Ukraine where Russian is the predominant language. And we wonder why people in Crimea wanted to leave after Euromaidan...

> Under these conditions, passing such a law was practically a question of self-preservation.

By eliminating Russian speaking people in Ukraine? Not a great justification.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#497

Post by kennywinker »

prepend wrote: post #467
kennywinker wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t want stupid personal expressions, I want meaningful or beautiful or somehow useful. I guess I feel that improving our world, ending war, making our society more just and fair, these are meaningful, useful, and beautiful things to do. They might be some of the most meaningful things actually. > It was counterproductive and distracting and wasted valuable time that we could use to do something better. This is…

> I guess I feel that improving our world, ending war, making our society more just and fair, these are meaningful, useful, and beautiful things to do. They might be some of the most meaningful things actually. I feel that way too. I want all those things. Adding “FreeUkraine” or “BLM” doesn’t do that. I don’t think virtue signaling is that big of a problem, but adding these phrases does nothing more than signal. I d…

One thing you might be coloring your perception, is the lack of visibility into other actions. Just because a person posts #blm and it’s largely a symbolic gesture and doesn’t have a big impact, doesn’t mean they didn’t take other more tangible steps - donations, calling their representatives, boycotts, etc. but you wouldn’t know about those. So every time you see the gesture you see inaction, when sometimes the gesture is just the tip of an iceberg of dedicated action.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#498

Post by jaldhar »

qsdf38100 wrote: post #474
jaldhar wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The banner wavers have moved on to the next trendy thing and people are still getting killed. What was achieved by annoying HNers?

You’re at war. Maybe you don’t realize it because you can still go on with your life as if nothing was happening. It’s not a trendy thing, it won’t go away because of some random trendy thing. HNers annoyance couldn’t be more irrelevant. And people are still getting killed because the world has decided that this war , as bad as it is, shouldn’t interfere with business too much. People are still getting killed because…

Are we still talking about BLM? Because I regret to inform you it has already gone away. The city where I lived published their provisional crimes stats for 2021 and it looks like murder rates have gone up. Most of that is gang related and black on black. Not only has the city not “defunded” the police department they’re looking to purchase what can only be described as a tank from a Homeland Security grant. There are good people working at the grassroots in the African-American community but they were there before the “awareness” and they will keep toiling after it.

It’s legitimate to ask what did all the Internet angst add to the solution? The answer it would seem is very little. I do hope it is different for Ukraine but I’m not holding my breath.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#499

Post by fattless »

eckesicle wrote: post #464
fattless wrote: post #413

Was talking with a friend about the peacenotwar thing. I think its pretty interesting to view so many of the decisions like this through the “we have to do something” mindset so many people have, especially on social media. All of these companies shutting down in Russia, people pressuring others to take a stand or shut down their services, upset the population. On HN I remember the namecheap thing and the service tha…

Sanctions and boycotts are unfortunately blunt. Yet, every citizen in Russia pays russian taxes. Tax rubles funds the war. Taxes are paid equally by those who support the war, and by those who oppose it. The end result is the same - bombs on Ukrainian maternity wards. It is a shame that the innocent have to suffer, but I'd rather impose sanctions and boycotts and see a smaller number of bombs rain down over Ukraine.…

Yeah, I probably should have clarified. I'm 100% for the sanctions and they are effective given the state if their economy rn. That directly effects the way they fight the war, with the civilian harm being an unfortunate side effect.

I was referring to the more meaningless actions that don't effect the Russian government or military to any significant degree, to attempt to upset the people and encourage them to speak out.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#500

Post by FDSGSG »

yyyk wrote: post #450
def_true_false wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What next? Is refusing doing business with Russia a war crime, too? After all, some civilians might lose their livelihoods and starve to death, right?

There's an obvious difference between trying to hurt people and not trading with them yourself. If the distinction is difficult, there are laws to define this 'war crime' thing, you may wish to consult them. Also, Russia is relatively self-sufficient foodwise. There'll be shortages but no starvation. I'm sure though that if starvation was serious possiblity the West would exclude food imports.

> There's an obvious difference between trying to hurt people and not trading with them yourself

Ah yes, because seizing Russian assets overseas is the same as "not trading with them".

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