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Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

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Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#241

Post by ars »

endisneigh wrote: post #3

I wonder what the USA would look like if minimum wage was defined as; two people being able to afford a 1 bedroom apartment within a 1 hour drive without traffic. The static (both in the nominal and inflation adjusted sense) for minimum wage doesn't make sense imo. Minimum wage should be tied to some level of living (not necessarily a great living, but something ) This guy smh

Think about the positive feedback loop you are proposing here:

Minimum wage goes up -> everything costs more -> minimum wage needs to go up some more.

So labor expense grows and grows, while expense for "stuff" becomes a smaller and smaller part of that.

So how do you make that stuff? You can't hire anyone - too expensive. So either automation, or buy things from other countries. This means firing people.

Your proposal will lead to mass unemployment.

But it gets worse, since you've tied your numbers to the cost of housing, and cities have the most expensive housing, people won't be able to live in the city (no jobs available that pay enough).

So mass migration to places with lower housing, until the cost of housing in a city goes down. What's you've done is incentivized everyone to kind of spread out in a diffuse way to keep down the cost of housing.

But where are the jobs in these places? There are no service jobs, since services are too expensive for anyone to buy. You'd have to drive more than an hour to find a job.

People will respond by demanding rent control, but that also means less housing is available.

So not only did you cause mass unemployment, you also caused mass homelessness.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#242

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

imgabe wrote: post #191
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was my initial reaction, but the more I think about it—is it really so unreasonable? Right now, we force employees to deal with the burden of ever-changing real-estate markets. Why not make employers do that? And if it's too much of a hassle for the employer, just pay your employees substantially above the minimum.

Most people are more than capable of dealing with the burden of managing their personal finances and budgeting. The more responsibility you want to shove off on institutions to take care of for you, the greater you increase your dependence on them and the more susceptible you make yourself to their control.

I suppose people are poor because they are irresponsible and it's important they remain that way for freedom is an interesting take.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#244

Post by daniel-cussen »

tinco wrote: post #218
jpcfl wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Otherwise it sounds like you don't think anyone should be able to live anywhere reasonable without roommates? I think your confusing "should be able to" with "shall be able to, enforceable by law". I don't expect that a 15 year old working his first job as a fry cook at an Arby's should be compensated enough that he can afford to live on his own. In fact, that could be dangerously disincentivizing his hard work towa…

Well thank Reagan for ruining the honest living wage forcing your lazy ass to go to college instead of wasting your talent as an Arby's fry chef.

Those college cardboards are talismans. I was looking in the Stanford bookstore and saw the following description on a box:

PRESIDENTIAL Masterpiece Diploma Frame in Jefferson with Black Suede & Premium Silver Wood Millet Mats - Stanford U

$249.00

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#245

Post by karmasimida »

_jal wrote: post #87
karmasimida wrote: post #42

I don't understand the reasoning. If the inflation is up, why won't the employees demand more wage to cover the rising cost? It isn't like Applebee is a high-sought after career, isn't it?

The core idea is the more desperate people are, the lower you can push their wages. Same reason exploitive employers oppose increasing the minimum wage, single payer, etc. Keeping people wretched means a steady supply of new bodies if the ones you're employing start thinking they can negotiate.

Currently it is definitely not a good time for those employers to talk about slashing wages or adding up hours, when there is literally a labour shortage in US.

The talk to exploit the high gas prices to their benefits sound nothing but delusional.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#246

Post by dv_dt »

nostrademons wrote: post #208
endisneigh wrote: post #3

I wonder what the USA would look like if minimum wage was defined as; two people being able to afford a 1 bedroom apartment within a 1 hour drive without traffic. The static (both in the nominal and inflation adjusted sense) for minimum wage doesn't make sense imo. Minimum wage should be tied to some level of living (not necessarily a great living, but something ) This guy smh

Inflation, probably followed by corruption. Minimum wage would rise to the point where a person could afford a 1BR apartment within a 1 hour drive without traffic. Then the rents of those 1BR apartments would rise to capture that new minimum wage. Then minimum wage would rise to afford the new rent, and so on. Eventually someone's going to say "Hey, I own an apartment block downtown, I'm supposed to rent it out to th…

If the rent pricing exceeds the production or maintenance cost of the apartments by too high a profit margin, then a government or regulated private entity should be formed to build them at a reasonable margin, thus controlling the minimum wage growth.

Alternately a large enough ratio of government controlled units within a market could be managed to provide a market weighting to reasonable prices. (you can see that in play in some European cities).

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#247

Post by glenstein »

nostrademons wrote: post #208
endisneigh wrote: post #3

I wonder what the USA would look like if minimum wage was defined as; two people being able to afford a 1 bedroom apartment within a 1 hour drive without traffic. The static (both in the nominal and inflation adjusted sense) for minimum wage doesn't make sense imo. Minimum wage should be tied to some level of living (not necessarily a great living, but something ) This guy smh

Inflation, probably followed by corruption. Minimum wage would rise to the point where a person could afford a 1BR apartment within a 1 hour drive without traffic. Then the rents of those 1BR apartments would rise to capture that new minimum wage. Then minimum wage would rise to afford the new rent, and so on. Eventually someone's going to say "Hey, I own an apartment block downtown, I'm supposed to rent it out to th…

>Then the rents of those 1BR apartments would rise to capture that new minimum wage.

This is commonly expressed as a consequence of raising the minimum wage, but in the most nuanced discussions of inflation that I've been exposed to, people are mindful of the fact that inflation ripples out into different segments of the economy in different ways.

I think the most plausible outcome is that certain segments of the economy function as shock absorbers, which take the hit of inflation disproportionately as the economy rebalances itself and relieves pressures on segments of the economy that were being squeezed unsustainably hard.

And so there is indeed a ripple effect of raising the minimum wage, namely there's more money to spend, but it radiates out into the economy in disproportionate ways, and can be a net benefit to wage earners because prices on critical necessities may rise, but not in proportion to the rise in wages.

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#248

Post by foolfoolz »

quantum_magpie wrote: post #64
endisneigh wrote: post #3

I wonder what the USA would look like if minimum wage was defined as; two people being able to afford a 1 bedroom apartment within a 1 hour drive without traffic. The static (both in the nominal and inflation adjusted sense) for minimum wage doesn't make sense imo. Minimum wage should be tied to some level of living (not necessarily a great living, but something ) This guy smh

>two people being able to afford a 1 bedroom apartment within a 1 hour drive without traffic. My immediate reaction to this statement was.. it's insane? In my opinion it should read 'a single person able to afford a 1 bedroom apartment within an hour of public transport commute.' Otherwise it sounds like you don't think anyone should be able to live anywhere reasonable without roommates?

living alone is a luxury all over the world. i don’t think it’s good to expect minimum wage will afford you a luxury style of living. we don’t have the infrastructure to support that for all. nor does any country

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#249

Post by TecoAndJix »

Seattle3503 wrote: post #226
licebmi__at__ wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s funny that the ideals of granting everyone “life, liberty and a the pursuit of happiness” are regarded as wisdom, but as soon as somebody tries to ponder of what that might be on the specific, then it’s regarded as crazy.

The quote talks about the pursuit of happiness, not happiness.

I think you need some level of opportunity to pursue, though

Re: Applebee’s exec urges using high gas prices to push lower wages, sparks walkout

#250

Post by astrange »

bee_rider wrote: post #221
quantum_magpie wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>two people being able to afford a 1 bedroom apartment within a 1 hour drive without traffic. My immediate reaction to this statement was.. it's insane? In my opinion it should read 'a single person able to afford a 1 bedroom apartment within an hour of public transport commute.' Otherwise it sounds like you don't think anyone should be able to live anywhere reasonable without roommates?

Also, you'd think the people with 'traditional values' or whatever would be really excited if a single worker could support a couple.

Dual-income families are because of equality, not poverty. When women earn nearly the same pay, it's worth it for them to work (and hire childcare) because then you can use the money to buy stuff.

When they don't work, it's because it wouldn't allow the household to buy more stuff on the margin - but rather than "spouse earns so much their income doesn't matter", it's more likely "they wouldn't earn enough to pay for the services they have to hire". Which is a bad thing.

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