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Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

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Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term “virtue signaling” is a pet peeve of mine. Like the word “problematic” it’s too vague and broad to be useful. The implication seems to usually be that it’s all talk and no action. But if we’re talking, as we are now, that’s completely separate from my actions. Like, if I say “pollution is bad” and don’t do anything in my life to reduce pollution that’s virtue signaling, but it’s not if I’ve dedicated my life…

> general I am for personal expression. I’m for signal, not noise. I don’t want stupid personal expressions, I want meaningful or beautiful or somehow useful. I used to work with a person who would raise their hand in every presentation and say “security is important how is this software secure” even when it wasn’t anywhere remotely relevant. It was counterproductive and distracting and wasted valuable time that we c…

I don't think signaling my beliefs ever will change anyone's mind.

However, I've gotten a lot of feedback from friends of mine that signalling my support for their cause or identity has made them feel more comfortable in the world.

That's both useful and beautiful.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#452
post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wasn't just an attack on Russia and other people's bad behavior doesn't excuse your own.

Whether or not they're excused is orthogonal to whether or not America should prosecute. If Russia doesn't prosecute cyberattacks on Americans, then the logical leverage to get them to do so is to not prosecute American cyberattacks on Russians.

Again, this wasn't just an attack on Russians.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was floored at that unprofessional behavior. Profession - "A professional is a member of a profession or any person who earns a living from a specified professional activity. " If you want professional behavior, pay the person. If you want free, you get whatever the person wants to give you for free.

The term professional is clearly applicable to software engineers working on open source projects, just as it is for lawyers doing pro bono work, and just like a plumber fixing his neighbors' sink for free is still performing his trade and expected to do work that upholds its standards. No one is required to do any work for an open source project, but they are expected to behave in a professional manner and plenty of…

I would agree that doing stunts is likely to damage a teams reputation, but I think you cast way too large a net to say that software engineers working on open source projects are professional, or even acting as professionals. The OSS ecosystem is filled with everything from large well run organizations to kids posting simple tools that are filled with bugs and vulnerabilities. There are no good expectations beyond use at your own risk. Even large professional organizations kill projects and leave people hanging.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Europe and I'd happily wear a jacket and a winter cap indoors. And people could go by bus, subway, ride share, so less oil and gas needed for transportation. And energy intensive industries could close for a while. Is it really more important to continue producing more cars, for example, than to try to stop the war?

It's annoying that the politicians don't seem to think about this. Are they worried that they'd get fever votes? What if everyone wrote to their politicians (in one's respective country) and said that they'd happy wear extra clothes indoors

> It's annoying that the politicians don't seem to think about this. Are they worried that they'd get fever votes?

They're probably worried about stated preference vs revealed preference. People say that they stand with ukraine and they're willing to make tremendous sacrifices to help ukraine/hurt russia. That might be true, but they might not be willing to actually pay the cost (eg. higher gas prices).

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#455

To be honest, I'm annoyed by the benign protestware messages when they start to get in the way of using the software, particularly on mobile. I was looking at the isomorphic git documentation the other day, and noticed that their "#BlackLivesMatter #DefundThePolice" banner scrolls under the rest of the content, leaving this annoying gap that takes up screen real estate, especially in landscape mode on a phone.[0] Wha…

It's still better than ads, though.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#456
post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is that they got caught up in the socially accepted "hate fest" against citizens of a certain country, particularly by private companies.

None of this is hate against the citizens. No one wants to hurt the innocent people in Russia. But pulling out of Russia is about the only thing that anyone can do to slow the flow of money that will be used to fund the invasion of Ukraine. The optimal thing would be to push the Russians out of Ukraine with military force, though that is also going to leave many dead. Just because they're soldiers doesn't mean they d…

> The optimal thing would be to push the Russians out of Ukraine with military force, though that is also going to leave many dead.

And the primary victims will be Ukrainian. Even considering that Europe has its arms open to this particular class of refugee, the country that they left will be a smoking crater. I wish we'd stop pretending that we're arming the Ukrainians for the Ukrainians' sake; we're trying to extend the war as long as possible in order to economically destroy Russia. The end stage of that is Western and central Ukraine being reduced to dust.

Russia has committed something like 15% of its military so far IIRC. This is just a matter of time. Ukrainians are being pushed through jingoistic nationalist propaganda (which is enforced at the borders if men who are old enough to carry a weapon try to leave) to destroy their country, and letting extreme-right minorities of the population (who are basically Banderaite lost-cause Nazis) lead. Those groups are happy to burn their country so the disgusting muslim commies won't rule it, and to die in glorious battle against them.

The disgusting thing is Americans are parroting the Azov rhetoric, too. Fat slobs sitting on a couch watching MSNBC/FOX/CNN all day and yelling at the television are calling Ukrainians traitors for leaving, and demanding that they be armed and sent back in.

The optimal thing is not to push the Russians out of Ukraine with military force, it's for Ukraine to give up. The world has shown it's willing to take white refugees, so those that fear Russian persecution can escape. Plenty would have happily emigrated without the Russian invasion, but the doors to Europe and the US were shut to them before. NATO re-promises not to put their alliance whose animating premise is anti-Russian on the borders of Russia. Ukraine rebuilds and normalizes.

What have they lost anyway? They were dominated by the Russians (and hopelessly corrupt), then a Western-incited and funded coup used the extreme-right element to install a (hopelessly corrupt) puppet who left office with a 5% approval rating, so the public elected an actor who played a president on television (also fully owned by an oligarch), which is an act so desperate, it would seem insane if the US hadn't elected a guy who played a boss on television to be president, or Italy hadn't handed its politics to a comedian playing the wise fool, or Boris Johnson hadn't been. Russia and the US trashed Ukraine, and we're cheering them on while they finish the job.

Even better, maybe we can push Russia into using some tiny nuke that we can't justify destroying the entire world over. Because the fact is, if they nuke Ukraine, we're not going to do shit. They know it. Lets make them feel so victimized to the man that they do it to reclaim some face, and piss the average Russian civilian off so much that they feel like there's nothing left to lose but their pride.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard disagree. Needing to follow the politics of every piece of your tech stack is a ridiculous way of doing things. We should have a system to verify if a module is malicious or not, that’s an engineering problem, politicking about in open source communities is not. Engineers should be engineering things.

You can not engineer away human problems. I agree that's a ridiculous way of doing things, but it's the only reasonable way to use Node! Which is to say, I think Node is not a great tech stack if you do not want to follow drama. Adding an antivirus scanner to your Node project is not going to fix this. It certainly hasn't solved the malware issue in the last few decades for PCs.

At the very least don’t task your principle engineer with solving human problems then. I stand by my initial comment that that is a waste of a good engineers time and mental health.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#458

To be honest, I'm annoyed by the benign protestware messages when they start to get in the way of using the software, particularly on mobile. I was looking at the isomorphic git documentation the other day, and noticed that their "#BlackLivesMatter #DefundThePolice" banner scrolls under the rest of the content, leaving this annoying gap that takes up screen real estate, especially in landscape mode on a phone.[0] Wha…

> noticed that their "#BlackLivesMatter #DefundThePolice" banner scrolls under the rest of the content, leaving this annoying gap

People get killed and a HNer is annoyed by a gap around a banner.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#459
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a company does business in Russia right now, they are giving money to the Russian government which will be used to kill Ukrainians. Let's not conflate wartime trade policy with Twitter wokeness marketing.

There are US companies still selling health products to Russian citizens. What is the expectation, to let them die? I fully understand that cars, fast food, liqueur or perfumes are things to stop selling, but essential products not. The average Ivan and Natasha should not receive a collective punishment (to death in some cases) for what some guy they may not have even voted for is doing.

Everyone selling pharmaceuticals should follow Pfizer's example and donate profits from sales in Russia:

https://www.fastcompany.com/90731145/pfizer-is-donating-its-...

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#460

To be honest, I'm annoyed by the benign protestware messages when they start to get in the way of using the software, particularly on mobile. I was looking at the isomorphic git documentation the other day, and noticed that their "#BlackLivesMatter #DefundThePolice" banner scrolls under the rest of the content, leaving this annoying gap that takes up screen real estate, especially in landscape mode on a phone.[0] Wha…

> noticed that their "#BlackLivesMatter #DefundThePolice" banner scrolls under the rest of the content, leaving this annoying gap People get killed and a HNer is annoyed by a gap around a banner.

The OSI article even encourages banners and other such thing in ones work. If code is speech, then speech shouldn't be frowned upon when the coder uses it in their project.

The OSI is specially calling out an incident where someone actually put malware in their code which targeted Belarus and Russia. Totally unacceptable and not a form of protected protest at all, and arguably not speech.

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