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Tell HN: There needs to be a “right to speak with a human”

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Re: Tell HN: There needs to be a “right to speak with a human”

#241

Post by raelmebrand »

coldtea wrote: post #99
PaulKeeble wrote: post #16

I think its important to recognise that quite a lot of modern web based companies are running their business on the 0 cents model. That is they take the marginal cost of a customer and push it down to zero and rely on scale to make a profit from it. They can't add anything to their business that would scale with the number of their customers that has any real cost, computing resources even are heavily optimised for l…

> I think its important to recognise that quite a lot of modern web based companies are running their business on the 0 cents model. That is they take the marginal cost of a customer and push it down to zero and rely on scale to make a profit from it. Well, that's their problem. There should absolutely be a "right to speak with a human", like a restaurant must pass health inspections, and other such things. If they c…

> If they can't afford it as a basic cost of doing business, they can always close.

Why do you choose such a company to do business with at the first place?

> Part of me thinks (perhaps naively) if I had the ability to speak with a real person over the phone, we could sort this out instead of constant emails or creating tickets that go into a black hole. As more companies outsource, automate, or severely cut their customer service department, there needs to be some kind of pressure to stop these frustrating experiences from happening.

Look at Dell or HP customer service. Google, Github or Digital ocean will become the same. Yes, you will never get the product designer or systems or devops engineer from those companies. The customer service will repeat the same thing million times over. (I lost Apple account, and unlike Google, I could reach Apple but they just repeated the same thing. (i.e) password is wrong; not our problem).

Also note that if there is direct connection to devops or dev, people ask silly questions to waste time. (i.e) These companies pay just $5000 per year to run their entire business with profits 100X and expect $10,000 per month DevOps will troubleshoot their problems.

> Voting with our dollars doesn't work when these companies are so integrated with our lives.

Example please. As long as it is not w e a p o n s all is wide open market.

Re: Tell HN: There needs to be a “right to speak with a human”

#242

Post by rpdillon »

pdonis wrote: post #193
ironmagma wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point here is that it’s a bad business model. I don’t mean “bad as in won’t make you money or keep the business running,” I mean “bad for society.” Hence the desire to regulate.

The way to get rid of bad business models is not for the government to regulate them. It's for customers to refuse to do business with them.

Agreed! I like the idea of disclosure-based regulation: the onus is on the business to disclose relevant information (like no human support provided), and customers can choose accordingly.

Re: Tell HN: There needs to be a “right to speak with a human”

#243

Post by xeromal »

coldtea wrote: post #99
PaulKeeble wrote: post #16

I think its important to recognise that quite a lot of modern web based companies are running their business on the 0 cents model. That is they take the marginal cost of a customer and push it down to zero and rely on scale to make a profit from it. They can't add anything to their business that would scale with the number of their customers that has any real cost, computing resources even are heavily optimised for l…

> I think its important to recognise that quite a lot of modern web based companies are running their business on the 0 cents model. That is they take the marginal cost of a customer and push it down to zero and rely on scale to make a profit from it. Well, that's their problem. There should absolutely be a "right to speak with a human", like a restaurant must pass health inspections, and other such things. If they c…

I agree with you, but it does make me wonder what the outcome would be like? What goes away? I genuinely don't know.

Re: Tell HN: There needs to be a “right to speak with a human”

#244

Post by marcosdumay »

rmellow wrote: post #103
radarsat1 wrote: post #53

I recently had the experience of trying to do a banking operation that required an in-person visit. For some reason this bank required me to do this operation at the branch that I originally opened the account, which is not where I live anymore, and it's very inconvenient for me to go there. So, while I was in another city of that country, I decided to try and handle that problem. I went to a branch and asked them to…

My partner bought some clothing in Brazil and wanted to exchange it at the store for something else. Unfortunately she lost the receipt, and the alternative which is providing your SSN is not available to her (not a citizen). The exchange was denied. We walked into another store location. They were sympathetic to the foreigner situation, and made an exception. Takeaway: Computers can't see that a process is flawed an…

Just a small point, but if you take any time on Brazil, you are expected to get a CPF, it's not only for citizens, it's for people that pay taxes.

That doesn't mean it's ok for stores to require it. It's not ok.

Re: Tell HN: There needs to be a “right to speak with a human”

#245

Post by dllthomas »

Definitely naive.

Would a good customer service department get your problem solved quickly? Certainly!

Is requiring a customer service department at a company that doesn't want one going to result in them implementing a good customer service department? Not on your life.

At least with email you have a paper trail...

Re: Tell HN: There needs to be a “right to speak with a human”

#246

Post by irvingprime »

Yes. We should push companies to have better customer service, including the ability to have a human look into things when needed.

But don't think of it as a "right." So many humans are stupid, uncaring or incompetent that it's equally possible to demand the right to speak (interact) with a computer.

Re: Tell HN: There needs to be a “right to speak with a human”

#247

Post by em-bee »

robcohen wrote: post #186

There's really no need for this. The solution is simple, separate the cost of the product from the cost of support. You need help with a product? ok, pay for it. Charge users for the cost of the employee they want to talk to. There are an unbelievable amount of users that have zero problem solving ability and refuse to attempt anything without a human telling them what to do. I have zero desire to have the price I'm…

this is not a support issue, but a warranty issue.

users being locked out of their accounts is not a lack of problem solving ability of that user.

the product is broken, and the company needs to fix that.

customers need the ability to reach a person that is able to assess whether the issue is a warranty issue or a support issue. if it is a support issue then by all means send them to paid support. but if the issue is the company's fault they better fix it without charge.

Re: Tell HN: There needs to be a “right to speak with a human”

#248

Post by Isthatablackgsd »

tomrod wrote: post #136
inetknght wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aflac has recently (past year) 100% stopped their phone support. Calling their phone support tells you to log in to their website. I hope you don't have trouble with their website! I was able to get my issue sort-of resolved by making a complaint to a regulator -- I now have a direct line to someone capable of taking my phone call. But that's not an option for every company.

The IRS dumps you after navigating their call tree if you need less popular options that aren't clear. Me: I want to comply with tax laws but have a question. IRS: Oh, you submitted paperwork and want to follow up on a letter we responded with? Hey, good luck. Maybe get an opinion from a tax attorney or CPA on what we mean in our comms.

I ran into this issue before. I was calling IRS to ask for simple clarification on the taxes.

Me: Hello, I have some question about the taxes and I wish to have clarification on-

Agent: Sorry, I cannot answer your question.

Me: Oh, then where the correct resource for me to get that information?

Agent: Sorry again, I cannot answer your question.

Me: Why you cannot answer my question? I am asking for a clarification on the taxes and IRS is the correct place for me to contact.

Agent: Because the law said so. You are asking tax-related question during tax off-season which we cannot answer nor help you. I'm sorry I cannot help you because the law prevents me from doing so. If you want your questions answered by the IRS, then you would need to wait until the tax season.

Me: Are you serious?

Agent: Unfortunately yes, there is nothing I can do at this moment. If I attempt to help you, I will be facing federal charge for the violation of the law. Your best chance is to wait until tax season.

Not even on hint of advisement to check with my CPA because that would consider helping the consumers.

Re: Tell HN: There needs to be a “right to speak with a human”

#249

Post by notriddle »

slfnflctd wrote: post #68
jddil wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got to say the fact that you thought someone leaving a 1 star review on a service you don't own, google, was worth you escalating it to a real person tells me these companies are doing the right thing. And shaming the CEOs when you made the choice to use their product is a bit silly and you come off as entitled, not righteous. How do we or google know if he was disgruntled vs fired, how do we know if he didn't come i…

The problem is that Google has become so pervasive that even if you don't initiate any contact with them or use any of their products/services, a bad review on Google can have a substantially negative effect on your business. It's a real problem. I was recently in charge of hiring various contractors for several repairs needed on a house being prepped for sale, and in almost every case, clearly non-technically-inclin…

> The problem is that Google has become so pervasive that even if you don't initiate any contact with them or use any of their products/services, a bad review on Google can have a substantially negative effect on your business. It's a real problem.

If this is true, it's because your would-be customers listen to what Google says. If people trust them, it's probably because they are the least bad option for gathering information on a lot of companies.

Re: Tell HN: There needs to be a “right to speak with a human”

#250

Post by newscracker »

The issues with customer service have been terrible for a very long time. The introduction of phone IVR menus that have labyrinths to prevent the caller from reaching a real person is also somewhat common with many companies. Then come chatbots, which are universally stupid, totally useless, and a big waste of time (anytime I see a company with a chatbot I think that a CTO doesn't exist or is clueless or just got a nice commission from buying it from a vendor).

There are sites that list phone numbers of companies and provide information on if or how one can reach a human. I'm not associated with this company in any way, but I've heard of it a long time ago and it's still around: https://gethuman.com . I'm sure there are other services that help with shortcuts on reaching a person who can help. In the worst case, do a "Tell HN" here with the name of the company and you'd more likely get a real human helping you out! :|

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