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Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

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Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#301

Post by ensan »

reaperducer wrote: post #293
whimsicalism wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this will get labeled as whataboutism, so to pre-empt that I am suggesting sanctions and Hague charges for all perpetrators, but what is uniquely bad about killing Ukrainians over Syrians, Libyans, or Iraqis?

I haven't seen anyone in this thread, or anywhere else, state that killing Ukrainians is uniquely bad. Do you have a source for this assertion?

Then, if you live in a western country, stop paying taxes because it supports killing innocent people, and to a much larger extent than what is going on in Ukraine.

Leave your job because tech companies have contracts with the government/"defense industry" and also pay taxes.

Don't buy anything from the grocery stores.

Cancel your flight if it's on an Airbus/Boeing.

Otherwise, it's all empty talk. To be clear, it absolutely is in my opinion.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#302

Post by BaronVonSteuben »

LunaSea wrote: post #292
gadders wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Is a single person going to be persuaded to support either cause by seeing this banner on a relatively niche JS library that reduces readability of its documentation? The purpose of the banner is not to convert anyone, the purpose is to demonstrate that the author of the package subscribes to the correct opinions.

So basically virtue signalling

Yes but pointing out that the emperor has no clothes is mean, so we need to pretend not to notice. Despite our modern day knowledge that most human behavior is almost entirely incentive-based (the hard part is identifying the incentive), we're still supposed to pretend that it's altrusim.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#303

Post by Turing_Machine »

Cederfjard wrote: post #107
ekianjo wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not taking sides is just not taking sides. There's no need to turn such a position into a shortcut to something else. It's as stupid as the kids saying "if you are not with us you are against us". Typical populist bullshit.

Are there limits to this, or do you think ”not taking sides” is a morally defensible position to have regarding everything? Is it ethical to be neutral when it comes to the holocaust?

It's perfectly ethical to not be loudly and publicly performing an anti-holocaust view 24/7/365, and failing to do that does not make one "pro-holocaust".

The list of Bad Things is endless, and failing to address any one of them does not make you in favor of that Bad Thing. It just doesn't.

You're just trying to bully people into spending their time amplifying your particular protest, and bullying in itself is a Bad Thing.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#304

Post by octopoc »

KevinEldon wrote: post #237
ryanmarsh wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m ok with it as long as the maintainer is consistent and does it for “the current thing” every time. That means Sudan, Darfur, Iraq war, ISIS, Assad’s regime, etc… Heck why not even Florida after the “say gay” thing?

Sounds like an opportunity to create a Protest Current Thing as a Service.

This is a cool idea. You would probably want to run the PCCaaS as a non-profit and donate some of the money (5% seems generous?) to appropriate causes. The main API would be for displaying an appropriate banner of course.

Another API would be to determine if a specific domain subscribes to the service and how much they care about the appropriate topic (in terms of "points" which are partly correlated with how much they spend on the PCCaaS, but also with some human input). This would be useful to people looking to vote with their wallet. I bet there are plenty of artists who would love to make custom banners, kind of like Google's doodle of the day.

A third API would be to get notified when a customer downgrades or terminates their plan with the Protest Current Thing as a Service. Journalists could subscribe to this last API to get ideas for news stories. /s

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#305

Post by dunkelheit »

reaperducer wrote: post #293
whimsicalism wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this will get labeled as whataboutism, so to pre-empt that I am suggesting sanctions and Hague charges for all perpetrators, but what is uniquely bad about killing Ukrainians over Syrians, Libyans, or Iraqis?

I haven't seen anyone in this thread, or anywhere else, state that killing Ukrainians is uniquely bad. Do you have a source for this assertion?

Actions speak louder than words and the reaction to the current conflict is certainly unique. I haven't heard of people pressuring companies to stop doing business with the US due to the Iraq war.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#306

Post by rrsmtz »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #29
bnt wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, you know, I’ll never touch Vue.js again?

Charitably, it creates a new friction for Russian business in deploying open-source software. That drag further diminishes Russia’s economy, and thus, its warmaking ability.

This is the line that every extremist group uses to justify their horrible acts.

Weaponizing open source is such an awful precedent. There are extremist groups of every shade who harbor ill intent towards some other group or institution. For a rather mundane example: "My malicious npm module detects you are running the Brave browser? The evil Brendan Eich runs that, say goodbye to your filesystem!" Never mind if you are part of a group that is mired in controversy, chief among them at this time being Russian.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#307

Post by matsemann »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #297
matsemann wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How hard is it to just say "I think Russia is wrong for invading Ukraine and killing people"? That's all you have to do. Just write it. If you can't do that, but still want to engage in the discussion on the topic, your standpoint is clear. You're not some holier person not taking a stand. You have taken one, you just don't dare to spell it out.

Because if I spend my time writing down everything I think is wrong with the world, I literally will not have time to do anything else. Your cause is not more important than thousands of other causes, and my refusal to spend my time amplifying your viewpoint does not in any sense imply I agree with the opposing view.

That's a fair point, but not when one intentionally enters a discussion about a conflict. Can't both claim no side and simultaneously pretend the aggressor is just as bad as the protester.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#309

Post by x3c »

julienfr112 wrote: post #279

You are right, but economic sanctions harms also the countries that are making these sanctions. Shell leaving Russia harms also Shell. Banning Russian airlines harms aviation as a whole. And it's not a reason not to do them. I think also that's it's better to focus on propaganda, like displaying a ascii-art of the old woman threatening a Russian soldier or whatever. But at the end, maintainers have the right to do an…

Withdrawing a service is very different from delivering a malignant service. McDonalds is withdrawing from Russia instead of serving contaminated Burgers.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#310

Post by raxxorrax »

ComradePhil wrote: post #176

I think there needs to be a counter effort against these people. Some entity like the EFF should maintain a database of people who have engaged in protestware so that there can exist APIs which will check for whether any of your dependencies come from these blacklisted people... or if you are about to hire them.

Not really a fan of exorcism, but it would pose a security risk. The probability it will hit the wrong people is immense to almost certain. Maybe even someone organizing protest within Russia. But random acts against Russian developers is an infantile form of protest in my opinion.
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