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Tell HN: There needs to be a “right to speak with a human”

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Tell HN: There needs to be a “right to speak with a human”

#211

Post by kqr »

majani wrote: post #149
radarsat1 wrote: post #53

I recently had the experience of trying to do a banking operation that required an in-person visit. For some reason this bank required me to do this operation at the branch that I originally opened the account, which is not where I live anymore, and it's very inconvenient for me to go there. So, while I was in another city of that country, I decided to try and handle that problem. I went to a branch and asked them to…

I used to judge banks until now I run a company that handles deposits. On the third day of launch I ran into a small bug that allowed some rogue users to drain all the money in our account at the time (which was about $400 only at least). Right then and there I fully understood why an organization dealing with money needs red tape as more of a safety harness than anything

This is empirically a false dichotomy. You can have flexibility and safety. It just takes the right culture. You have to do away with hierarchy, blame, etc.

In fact, I believe flexibility can ultimately lead to even greater safety than bureaucracy, which is, as Graeber put it, active stupidity. And while aiming for stupidity might rule out some classes of errors, it definitely introduces even more of them.

Re: Tell HN: There needs to be a “right to speak with a human”

#213

Post by msla »

pempem wrote: post #199
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There should absolutely be a "right to speak with a human", like a restaurant must pass health inspections, and other such things. > If they can't afford it as a basic cost of doing business, they can always close. If you're not paying for a service, are you even really a customer? Hacker News is free. Do you really expect to be able to pick up the phone and call someone at Y Combinator to discuss your Hacker News…

I think we can presume the author means: goods/services I have exchanged funds for. Additionally I would point out that Gmail makes plenty of money off our data and we all have written about or thought about how 'users are the product'. Not sure why there's seemingly a heightened emotional response here.

There's always an answer.

If you don't pay for it: "You're not the customer, you're the product."

If you do pay for it: "You get what you pay for."

If you pay for it and have a contract specifying you will get it: "Not worth taking it to court."

If you do take it to court: "We must stop all these frivolous lawsuits!"

There is always an answer.

Re: Tell HN: There needs to be a “right to speak with a human”

#214

Post by karaterobot »

> Voting with our dollars doesn't work when these companies are so integrated with our lives.

I don't think I agree with this. I don't know what product you're referring to, but thinking back to other times I've heard people say this, it's been for things like a streaming service, or a credit card, or a phone. These things are conveniences that can be replaced, and a better way to describe our relationships to them is "it would be a small to moderate inconvenience to find an alternative or do without them, and I don't want to do that".

But I do feel strongly that, if we can't make good, informed decisions as consumers in a more or less free market, we're headed in a bad direction. Either we'll just keep buying things from whatever malevolent company has the market cornered, or we'll regulate so strongly that we have the choice made for us by a committee somewhere. The best alternative is that we do research before buying things, support good products, and starve the companies who make bad ones.

Re: Tell HN: There needs to be a “right to speak with a human”

#215

Post by minerva23 »

Humans won’t guarantee better results. It’s easy to get a human at Verizon, but due to mismanagement, you’ll get transferred from dept to dept. I spent about 20 hours with Verizon humans to get a bug costing me money sorted out (and I still need to follow up with them).

Re: Tell HN: There needs to be a “right to speak with a human”

#218

Post by Arkhaine_kupo »

fourseventy wrote: post #183
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While true, this is how the system is set up for at the moment, because if one company doesn't cut costs, someone else (with a lot of investor money) will come in and undercut the market. Because when it comes down to it, people don't care about speaking to a human when they can get a product or service for less than the competition. Both corporations and consumers min/max their expenses, at the cost of service or hu…

So you think communism will out perform capitalism? History has proven this to not be true. Once you take away the drive to make profits you take away all drive for innovation or to make quality products.

Yeah the army is communism, so is pensions. God I hate the communist healthcare system in the UK that costs less and has better performance and care than America's.

The more you nationalise the more communism you have and if you have too much you die as we all know. Its a meter god put to balance Pvp in the endgame.

> History has proven this to not be true.

Norways energy grid is nationalised and it is one of the best investment funds in the world

Meanwhile the UK privatised trains in the 70s and has the oldest, slowest and most expensive trains in europe.

History exists outside of 1970s america vs soviet russia stereotypes

Re: Tell HN: There needs to be a “right to speak with a human”

#219

Post by wutbrodo »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #156
wutbrodo wrote: post #134

The bar for "rights" isn't "I wish this was more common". Should there be a right to avocado on your burger, or a fifteen-second response time from waiters, or boiling-water taps in every home? Does it sound ridiculous to push those costs into prices for things that are unnecessary? What makes phone support so different?

Agreed. Rephrase this “rights are never anything someone should be forced to provide”. Rights are naturally given and cannot be taken away. You have the right to life and education and defense. no one can take those things from, but no one else to provide them either. because that would be infringing on their rights. Do I think it would be nice for companies to provide human assistance? Yes of course. But I could nev…

I'm making a much narrower point, which is compatible with those who believe in positive rights. But "human support" is closer to "a right to a free taco a day" than it is to "a right to healthcare".

Re: Tell HN: There needs to be a “right to speak with a human”

#220

Post by AnimalMuppet »

kqr wrote: post #211
majani wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to judge banks until now I run a company that handles deposits. On the third day of launch I ran into a small bug that allowed some rogue users to drain all the money in our account at the time (which was about $400 only at least). Right then and there I fully understood why an organization dealing with money needs red tape as more of a safety harness than anything

This is empirically a false dichotomy. You can have flexibility and safety. It just takes the right culture. You have to do away with hierarchy, blame, etc. In fact, I believe flexibility can ultimately lead to even greater safety than bureaucracy, which is, as Graeber put it, active stupidity. And while aiming for stupidity might rule out some classes of errors, it definitely introduces even more of them.

I think I disagree. In security (not just financial), security and user convenience are almost always at war with each other. And "culture" doesn't seem to fix it.
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