In the past the big multinational corporations did not give a shit about ethics. IBM happily sold Hitler machines to categorize jews gipsies slavs and gay people. Now programmers 'protest', or more accurately, attack what they conceive as evil, and it suddenly become a thing. Which one is better? Of course neither is good enough, but I certainly think programmers can express their views and values. Sometimes you have to admit that fairytale concepts, such as open source, or the internet that every person can get access to, or globalization, or the end of history, are hitting a hard wall. Maybe none of these thing from the last few decades are everlasting in the time scale of human history. If I have to choose between freedom of speech which proves true for like several hundreds of years and decades old open source, I would not hesitate.
Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source
241–250 of 575 posts
Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source
#242I just don't understand what the node-ipc dev was expecting when he did that. "Hm, maybe if I put malware into a community-trusted module that destroys files of people in a certain geopolitical region, the countless innocent citizens that are affected will realize what they did wrong! Wait, who am I actually targeting again?"
>"Hm, maybe if I put malware into a community-trusted module that destroys files of people in a certain geopolitical region, the countless innocent citizens that are affected will realize what they did wrong! Wait, who am I actually targeting again?" "yeah but countless ukranian women and children are getting murdered by russians! surely a few wiped hard drives is worth it to raise awareness?" /s of course, but peopl…
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Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
How hard is it to just say "I think Russia is wrong for invading Ukraine and killing people"? That's all you have to do. Just write it. If you can't do that, but still want to engage in the discussion on the topic, your standpoint is clear. You're not some holier person not taking a stand. You have taken one, you just don't dare to spell it out.
I can still say that Russia is wrong for invading Ukraine and say that the protestware we're talking about in the thread is wrong too (a different, lesser wrong, though)
Of course. What I take issue with is the "don't choose sides"-people often say both are wrong, as if they are equally wrong. In these issues, it's one part killing or denying others their way of living, and others protesting the oppressors.
Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source
#244I just don't understand what the node-ipc dev was expecting when he did that. "Hm, maybe if I put malware into a community-trusted module that destroys files of people in a certain geopolitical region, the countless innocent citizens that are affected will realize what they did wrong! Wait, who am I actually targeting again?"
Worse, he also provides ammunition for Kremlin propaganda. Which already is easier because people don't trust the press. Which is also understandable because some write a lot of bullshit.
Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source
#245Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If you have the power to do something and you don't, that's taking a side. Pushing political commit messages is not "power". If you like like everyone around you you are not a rebel, just a conformist. And using indiscriminate IP-location malware to annoy people is the textbook definition of evil child behavior. I'm not sure what exactly you are trying to defend here. > By the way, everything is not propaganda: ant…
> Pushing political commit messages is not "power". I'm not debating whether it works or whether it's the right form of activism. I'm responding to your comment. Namely you saying that taking a side is childish. > If you like like everyone around you you are not a rebel, just a conformist. If your goal is to follow the herd, that's bad. If it's to go in the opposite direction, that's the same thing. I'd encourage a p…
> Are you disputing the recent Russia's invasion of Ukraine?
Not the GP. I don't specifically dispute that. But in a time when many fictional stories can be told through video, I think it's reasonable to be unsure and neutral on things that we don't have direct knowledge about. Put another way, I think being neutral and silent by default is a necessary defense against manipulation.
Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
Probably hoped the effects would negatively effect people there so they could put pressure to stop the murder of other innocent civilians. Arguments like this are similar to the BLM protest that try to equate property with human lives.
I have a legal (and moral) right to defend my property, often with deadly force. My property came into my possession by my own labors and time, i.e. by sacrificing part of my life to obtain it. Even if the property was gifted to me, that means that someone else sacrificed part of their life to give it to me. When someone violates my rights in the process of "protesting" something, I am legally and morally justified i…
Where is this true? In the US you have the right to murder if the person is in your home and in some states you have the right to murder if you feel your life is being threatened, in this case because you're being robbed.
If you left your car running while you ran into the store you don't have the right to shoot the guy in the back as he drives off. You file a police report and potentially sue for damages.
You definitely don't have the right to shoot someone for burning down your local Target.
Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source
#247I have never disappointed by open source projects until this recent weeks. The acts of some OSS maintainers that blatantly use the tools they maintained as a platform to show their support for one side has disappointed me. Especially because they have never took side nor notice other bloody conflict before this. I won't be as disappointed if they always use their tools to promote peace and stand with whichever nation being invaded and oppressed. But no, they only care when a western/western-aligned country being invaded. This just shows their hiprocricy and racism.
Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have a legal (and moral) right to defend my property, often with deadly force. My property came into my possession by my own labors and time, i.e. by sacrificing part of my life to obtain it. Even if the property was gifted to me, that means that someone else sacrificed part of their life to give it to me. When someone violates my rights in the process of "protesting" something, I am legally and morally justified i…
Where is this true? In the US you have the right to murder if the person is in your home and in some states you have the right to murder if you feel your life is being threatened, in this case because you're being robbed. If you left your car running while you ran into the store you don't have the right to shoot the guy in the back as he drives off. You file a police report and potentially sue for damages. You defini…
If someone is trying to burn down my house with me in it, I have a right to shoot them in pretty much every jurisdiction in the US. If someone is burning down my store with me in it, I also have the right to use deadly force to defend it.
Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It is politics and ideology harms open source. The movement towards free and open source software was created in no small part do to activists with a very strong ideology. Open source would not exist to the same extent without the ideology espoused by the FSF. The problem is that abandoning a key tenant of the free software movement, neutrality towards different uses (part of freedom 0 of the free software definiti…
> The movement towards free and open source software was created in no small part do to activists with a very strong ideology They did have a strong ideology and they worked towards building the world they wished to see. Not by breaking existing things to virtue signal their support for "the current thing"
Yeah, but that means the problem is in fact protestware and not "ideology" in some vague sense.
Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
> not worthy object of charity Most people, certainly productive people, are employed by companies. Take an extremist position on who your product works for and you limit the developer pool. An agnostic competitor would be expected to replace you.
It's not an extremist position to say you don't have to do much about big companies feelings about using Free software. You don't have to expend your scarce resources to make them feel comfortable. Note well here I am talking about nothing whatever of substance, this is all pure marketing. If big cos turn from Free software due to prejudice and ignorance about what it is, what it does and how to manage it, rather tha…
> I am talking about nothing whatever of substance, this is all pure marketing
This is fair. Would note that one advantage to teams that do the outreach and accommodation can be support, financial and contributions. But that's speculative and not the right move for every team.