While I am personally disgusted with what transpired with node-ipc and am also completely gutted and outraged at Russias violent invasion of Ukraine - I don’t like the idea of us trying to “tone police” open source projects. If some idiot maintainer wants to pull a stupid stunt like that they should have the right to do so. In my view it’s the software equivalent of “hate speech” which, while vile, should be protecte…
Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source
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Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source
#102> Instead of malware, a better approach to free expression would be to use messages in commit logs to send anti-propaganda messages and to issue trackers to share accurate news inside Russia of what is really happening in Ukraine at the hands of the Russian military, to cite two obvious possibilities How about not taking sides instead of acting like a kid believing one side is black and the other white with absolutel…
Russia's aggression is pretty one sided. Not taking sides is like turning you eyes away.
Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because open source is idealistic and altruistic to a fault; it is the antithesis to "got mine, fuck you", or that of the capitalist "fuck you, pay me". If you limit access to anyone it is, by definition, no longer open source. I mean there's probably plenty of licenses that restrict commercial usage of open source software. That said, I'm all for open source software monetization; include messages in the README, cod…
Part of being idealistic is standing up for what is right but without causing more harm than necessary. > If you limit access to anyone it is, by definition, no longer open source Licensing disagrees. Not everything opensource is permissive.
Exactly. Setting off a logic bomb targetted at whole countries is not “without causing more harm than necessary”. Add wilful destruction to a protest, especially if that destruction is such that is affects innocent bystanders, and you no longer have a protest, you have a riot.
Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source
#104I'm in Texas. A LOT of Californians disagree with some of the laws that Texas has passed. How long will it be until my hard drive gets reformatted by some protestor in San Francisco who localizes my IP address?
It is not "Protestware" that harms open source. It is politics and ideology harms open source.
And the rate things are going may be Open Source will not only be split between permissive and copyleft, but progressive and libreRight.
Edit: Now I remember Douglas Crockford's "The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil." license. I wonder if there are still any open source that uses it.
Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source
#105Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source
#106I'm in Texas. A LOT of Californians disagree with some of the laws that Texas has passed. How long will it be until my hard drive gets reformatted by some protestor in San Francisco who localizes my IP address?
Quoted post unavailable.
It's an answer good enough for the Supreme Court of the United States, but I'll bet it wont be good enough for Wokeware.
Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not taking a side is agreeing with the oppressor.
No, not taking sides is just not taking sides. There's no need to turn such a position into a shortcut to something else. It's as stupid as the kids saying "if you are not with us you are against us". Typical populist bullshit.
Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source
#108I'm in Texas. A LOT of Californians disagree with some of the laws that Texas has passed. How long will it be until my hard drive gets reformatted by some protestor in San Francisco who localizes my IP address?
You pretty much summarise what is wrong with the title. It is not "Protestware" that harms open source. It is politics and ideology harms open source. And the rate things are going may be Open Source will not only be split between permissive and copyleft, but progressive and libreRight. Edit: Now I remember Douglas Crockford's "The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil." license. I wonder if there are still any o…
This is nothing new: this is a problem which has always existed.
Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source
#109Do people think the people protesting like this don't know that this is damaging? They presumably feel that the issue at hand is more important than that damage. Every protest every has been met with "but this protest is being done the wrong way, don't inconvenience me", but that's the point: protest has to disrupt things to make people take notice and make changes. Would I do this? No. I don't think it's effective o…
This is exactly it. For some people, a world that they relate to is coming to an end, and anything they could do, however insignificant, no matter what the side-effects or personal reputation cost, is worth doing. This isn't some brainy impact-analysis based action. "Something must be done". The disruptions caused by these rogue packages will make it to newspapers and the media, and maybe, just maybe, parrying the ne…
It is not OK to go out and find Russian Americans and go vandalize their property to make a point. If you do so, you should face criminal charges.
I similarly think that the node module maintainers who deliberately abused their trust to make an indiscriminant attack of people's digital property should face criminal charges and civil liability.
Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source
#110Do people think the people protesting like this don't know that this is damaging? They presumably feel that the issue at hand is more important than that damage. Every protest every has been met with "but this protest is being done the wrong way, don't inconvenience me", but that's the point: protest has to disrupt things to make people take notice and make changes. Would I do this? No. I don't think it's effective o…
As a Russian, you already notice this and you already have many things in your everyday life disrupted. Someone deleting your files as an act of shoving politics where it doesn't belong helps absolutely nothing. If anything, it's not an act of protest, it's an act of vandalism. Causes don't matter here — vandalism is simply never okay.
It draws attention and coverage to the issue. It forces people to listen. Protest has to be disruptive to the norm to achieve that, and there will always be people who don't like that. That's the point.
As I say, I don't think this one is effective or proportional given the lack of control someone in Russia has over the situation, but just saying "nothing should ever be damaged in protest" is, I think, naïve at best.
If Russia were a state with a reasonable guarantee of a fair legal process, I would argue a moral obligation to disruptive protest to end the war. If the UK (where I am) were to invade another country like this, I would hope for a general strike, and civil disobedience of all kinds, including vandalism. The fact that Russia has such a hard line against dissidence makes this obviously more morally difficult, although I greatly respect those that still choose to protest, I can't expect it of anyone.
People will disagree about how effective a thing is, and how justified it is. What the Russian state is doing is monstrous, and that increases the level of justified disruption to me. That doesn't mean this was justified—I feel it wasn't—but pretending that all "vandalism" is inherently never reasonable as protest is, in my view, wrong.